Mr. CLEVELAND. I have a statement, if you care to have it, prepared as of April 1, for our last month's minutes; having received your request to come here late yesterday afternoon, I did not take the trouble to have it brought down to date. This [indicating] is our financial statement. That is our pay roll. These are explanatory data.

The CHAIRMAN. This is not divided by fiscal years?

Mr. CLEVELAND. No, sir. If you care to have it, we can divide it by fiscal years.

The CHAIRMAN. We would prefer it.

Mr. CLEVELAND. We had approximately $130,000 to spend at the beginning of the last fiscal year, and we have been spending it at about that rate ever since. Do you wish to get the situation before you as we had it before the committee last year? This [indicating] is the statement which was submitted to the Appropriation Committee last year in February. Up to the 1st of February we had spent about $7,000 of the $100,000 made available July 1, 1910, for the fiscal year. After the passing of the appropriation act of March 4, 1911, making the remaining balance and $75,000 additional available until June 30, 1912, we went on and began to build up to our regular staff, so that by the 1st of July—

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). We appropriated for this year $75,000 and the unexpended balance of the appropriation for last year. Can you segregate it in that way?

Mr. CLEVELAND. We can get it up in that form. I might say that there are really two periods covered by the inquiry-the period of preliminary inquiry, running from the 27th of September until about the 1st of March, when this second authorization or appropriation was made, and then the commission period. The commission was organized subsequent to March 1. Up until the 1st of March there had been spent only about $9,000, which with outstanding encumbrances of about $3,000 made a total of about $12,000. From March 8, when the commission organization was authorized by the President, we began to build up the staff, and by the 1st of July we were on a full working basis, with $130,000 still to spend. That has been about the monthly rate of expenditure all through this year.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the unexpended balance that came over from the last fiscal year?

Mr. CLEVELAND. We had available $130,000. That is, $55,000 remaining from the prior year's appropriation, to which was added $75,000 by appropriation act of March 4, 1911.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, last year you spent $45,000?

Mr. CLEVELAND. Approximately.

The CHAIRMAN. And this fiscal year you had $55,000 and $75,000? Mr. CLEVELAND. Approximately $130,000.

Mr. CANNON. Is the appropriation exhausted?

Mr. CLEVELAND. The balance remaining unexpended is shown on the statement following: To April 1 we had spent $133,000, out of $175,000, and we estimate that at the present rate we will spend $37,000 more; leaving a balance or reserve for contingencies and, if need be, for extra work during the last month of $5,000.

Statement of expenditures, President's Commission on Economy and Efficiency.

DETAILS FROM AND WORK DONE BY DEPARTMENTS FOR THE COMMISSION.

The CHAIRMAN. In the first place, what, if any, details have there been from the various departments to the commission?

Mr. CLEVELAND. There have been a few details. We have not a list of them here, but there have been a few from time to time. The only department from which we have had anyone detailed for a considerable length of time was the Navy Department, and during all of the time while he was on detail we were employing quite a number of our staff on description and construction Navy work, in cooperation with representatives whom they had assigned. The person who was detailed belonged to the old Bureau of Maintenance, which was temporarily in suspense, and therefore the chief clerk of the bureau was detailed to work with members of the commission in the preparation of a report to the Secretary of the Navy at his request. The details such as there have been, I think all of them, have had relation to matters in which the particular department was interested.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please put in the record a statement showing the employees who were detailed specifically to the commission and the departments from which they were detailed?

Mr. CLEVELAND. We will, so far as we can without having any records. We will try to recall them as far as possible.

List of persons who have been detailed from other departments for work in connection with the President's Commission on Economy and Efficiency.

Wilmot, W. E.

Detailed from Post Office Department, January 14, 1911, to April 15, 1911. (Assistant superintendent Division of Classification.) Salary, $1,600 per

annum.

Bickford, Mary F.

Detailed from office of Auditor for War Department, October 13, 1911, to November 27, 1911, and at various times thereafter to January 15, 1912. Salary, $1,200 per annum. Not to exceed 45 working days.

Smith, W. H. H.

Detailed from Bureau of Steam Engineering, Navy Department, December 15, 1910, to January 24, 1912. Salary, $2,000 per annum.

Hunt, Dorothy.

Detailed from office of Auditor Post Office Department, October 10, 1911, to December 21, 1911. Total of 63 working days. Salary, $1,000 per

annum.

Holmes, H. A.

Detailed from Bureau Yards and Docks, Navy Department, four days, March 12 to 15, 1912, inclusive. Salary, $5.04 per diem. Murray, John P.

Detailed from Government Printing Office, November 11, 1911, and is still on detail. Salary, $6.24 per diem.

Parsons, Lieut. A. L.

Civil engineer, United States Army. Detailed March 2 to 17, inclusive, and March 29 to 31, inclusive. Salary, $3,000 per annum.

The CHAIRMAN. In addition to that, I was going to inquire what employees of the departments, if you know, were assigned to the work of collecting data for the commission, if there were any, and to what extent?

Mr. CLEVELAND. At the time the preliminary inquiry was begun, I think it was on the 28th day of September, 1910, the President requested each member of the Cabinet to appoint a departmental committee on economy and efficiency to cooperate with the White House inquiry. A list of those who were so appointed, together with the work in which they were asked to cooperate, is contained in a brief interim report which was afterward published as Commission Circular No. 4. If you care to have that submitted as a part of the record, it contains a list of the various persons who have cooperated in the inquiry, together with a statement of the work they were asked to do during this prelimianry inquiry and the work which they did undertake.

The CHAIRMAN. These were what were known as the departmental committees ?

Mr. CLEVELAND. They were. In addition to this, there is noted in the footnotes in this report the men who temporarily assisted in doing particular work in progress which is mentioned in the report. For example, in relation to the classification of expenditures, you will find a note containing a large number of names of persons who were assigned to this specific work.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the information we wish, but it does not give all the information we wish.

Mr. CLEVELAND. I shall be very glad to supplement it.

At the first meeting of the Cabinet after the summer (Sept. 27), a policy was announced by the President, and, pursuant thereto, each head of department was asked to appoint a committee of competent experts, already engaged in the

service of the Government, to collaborate with the White House staff, and through cooperation to provide both for joint consideration of common problems and for uniformity of departmental action upon subjects of Executive determination. The committees appointed were as follows:

State Department.-Hon. Huntington Wilson. Assistant Secretary of State, chairman; Mr. Wilbur J. Carr, director of the Consular Service; Mr. William McNeir, chief clerk.

Department of the Treasury.—Mr. James L. Wilmeth, chief clerk, chairman; Mr. M. O. Chance, Auditor for the Post Office Department; Mr. Lawrence O. Murray, Comptroller of the Currency.

Department of War.-Maj. Gen. F. C. Ainsworth, Adjutant General of the Army, president; Capt. Fred W. Sladen, recorder; Brig. Gen. W. W. Wotherspoon; Brig. Gen. E. A. Garlington; Assistant and Chief Clerk John C. Scofield. Department of Justice.-Mr. O. J. Field, chief clerk, chairman; Mr. S. W. Finch, Chief of the Bureau of Investigation; Mr. J. H. Mackey, disbursing clerk.

Post Office Department.-Mr. Theodore L. Weed, chief clerk, chairman; Mr. Robert S. Sharp, chief post-office inspector; Mr. George G. Thomson, superintendent Division of Supplies.

Department of the Navy.-Admiral Richard Wainwright, chairman; Capt. R. C. Smith; Pay Inspector G. W. Simpson; Commander Philip Andrews; Naval Constructor R. H. Robinson; Commander J. M. Poyer, recorder.

2

Department of the Interior.-Mr. Oscar Lawler, Assistant Attorney General, chairman; Mr. Don M. Carr, private secretary to the Secretary; Mr. Clement S. Ucker, chief clerk.

Department of Agriculture.-Mr. George P. McCabe, Solicitor, chairman; Mr. Jasper Wilson, private secretary to the Secretary; Mr. A. Zappone, Chief of the Division of Accounts and Disbursements; Mr. James B. Adams, Assistant Forester; Mr. C. C. Carroll, chief clerk Bureau of Animal Industry.

3

Department of Commerce and Labor.-Mr. Robert M. Pindell, jr., chief clerk, chairman; Mr. W. F. Willoughby, Assistant Director of the Census; Mr. W. L. Soleau, disbursing clerk; Mr. George C. Havenner, Chief of Division of Publications; Mr. Roger O'Donnell, special immigrant inspector, Bureau of Immigration and Naturalization.

Smithsonian Institution. Mr. W. de C. Ravenel, administrative assistant, National Museum; Mr. H. W. Dorsey, chief clerk; Mr. A. B. Baker, assistant superintendent, Zoological Garden.

Interstate Commerce Commission.—Mr. H. S. Milstead, disbursing clerk. Commissioners of the District of Columbia.—Mr. Alonzo Tweedale, auditor of

District.

Civil Service Commission.—Mr. G. R. Wales, chief examiner; Mr. J. T. Doyle, secretary.

Government Printing Office.-Benjamin C. Vipond, James K. Wallace, and Seward T. Covert.

The CHAIRMAN. What we would like to have would be a statement showing the class of employment of each of the persons, with their compensation, and the amount of time devoted to this work. Mr. CLEVELAND. None of these men, in the legal sense, was detailed.

The CHAIRMAN. They were not detailed, but if they were assigned for any period of time to this work and were taken from their other duties, it is altogether proper that that should be reckoned as a part of the cost of this investigation.

Mr. CLEVELAND. True, but I doubt if we will be able, unless we canvass each of the departments, to get the information which you request, because these men would come together perhaps an hour or two hours a day for a week or two weeks, or something of that sort,

1 Mr. Chance having been appointed secretary of the commission, his successor as auditor, Mr. Charles A. Kram, took his place.

2 Mr. Lawler and Mr. Carr having resigned, Mr. Charles W. Cobb and Mr. Irving Rittenhouse were appointed, and Mr. Edward B. Fox was added to the committee.

Since Mar. 30, 1911, Mr. Willoughby has been a member of the commission.

Mr. Soleau having resigned from the service, Mr. George Johannes took his place.

and consider the subjects before them. Sometimes there would be one man and sometimes another, and sometimes they would meet as a group, but altogether it would not amount to more than a few hours of the time of each of them. Moreover, it would be along the line of their special work, in relation to their technical subjects, that they would be asked to come together and give us the benefit of their advice. I do not know how we could get this information unless we asked each of the departments to prepare a statement such as you request.

The CHAIRMAN. If employees outside of those upon your staff payable out of this appropriation have been devoting their time to the work of collating information for the commission, it would properly be chargeable to the cost of this inquiry. If this necessitates an inquiry sent to the departments the probabilities are that they have kept no record?

Mr. CLEVELAND. We have not the information. Generally speaking, while there have been hundreds of men who have been consulted in this capacity, there has been very little time spent by any one of them, and that would be counted by hours rather than by days.

Mr. SHERLEY. You do not mean the time that they were engaged in getting up data and information for the commission?

Mr. CLEVELAND. I mean these persons who are noted here as experts on specific subjects concerning which we consulted them. They would get together for discussion before arriving at a particular conclusion. Our method was to ask the head of a department or the economy committee in a department to indicate to us some one with whom we might consult or who could come by our office and consult with us, so that from time to time during the whole period of the inquiry we have had different persons brought into a consulting relation. In every instance, however, so far as I recall, it has concerned the subject of his work. With respect to the preliminary reports, which were prepared by the department for the President on the blanks sent out, those were distributed in each case to each of the many divisions of the service so that it would be the head of each small unit, you might say, that would report the facts and it would not require a large part of his time. Those division reports were brought together into the hands of the departmental economy committee and after being edited by them would be transferred to us.

OUTLINE OF WORK DONE AND REPORTS MADE.

[See also p. 165.]

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please outline just what has been done so far?

Mr. CLEVELAND. During the period of the preliminary inquiry these various committees returned to the White House the reports requested on the subjects of the powers, duties, and responsibilities of each department (12 each reported on what was its administrative problems); how it was organized; what methods were being employed; what results were being obtained, etc., with the expressions of opinion as to what changes could be made to advantage. There were also started during that period certain constructive work with respect to accounting and reporting and in relation to certain