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General MCLAIN. As I said the other day, it takes about 3,000 hours to train troops for combat. At the present time the civilian component gets about 600 hours of training. I do not know whether the Senator was here yesterday or not, but they train 2 hours a week for 50 weeks a year and for 3 years. If they stay in 3 years, and went to all of the drills, they will get about 600 hours. That is about 20 percent of the training. Some of our people say 2,000 hours. Without UMT you cannot do much with them, except put them in camp and start training, which will take from 9 to 12 months or more.

You give them UMT for 1,000 hours and add that on to it, and you have got 1,600 hours or about 60 percent trained. At that time they can take over a lot of missions that you have to have Regular forces for.

We shipped two divisions to Japan when the Regulars were moved to Korea. That was economical. Otherwise, we should have had to have two Regular troop divisions ready to ship over.

So actually you cover this hiatus in here of about 6 months when you would not have Regular troops to ship. Therefore, you might lose all of your troops and in order to run that risk you would have to have more Regular divisions, because you could not run that risk. The shipping would be unoccupied for that period of time.

By this you get in about that much more time, and you fix it so that there is a continuous flow to the battlefield. This 6 months will expand that time, because if they have 1,600 hours and our people say 2,000 hours is required to train them for combat, the margin is narrowed to 400 hours. I think that is a little short, but, anyway, that is what you would get.

Within 3 months you would have a division ready to ship. So in that sense you save a lot, because you do not have to have Regular troops to reinforce them. And you can keep your shipping occupied all of the time.

COST OF UMT

Senator FLANDERS. I had no doubt, sir, but what it would be cheaper if we are just talking about money when the Reserve got built up but just from the money standpoint there are other questions involved. I was a little bit disturbed about the expense of starting UMT training which was not available for us in the near future. It seemed to me that so long as they were not available for use, so long as we would be having an expense which would result in no end product, which is the term you used.

General MCLAIN. That might be the case. There might be some immediate situation of that kind, but I think that these people are available almost-I mean, they have value in themselves almost from the time you put them into camp.

You have a training plant in being as demonstrated on this chart. (The chart is as follows:)

Fortunately, we have so many officers who have had combat training that is not much of a problem.

However, as far as the individual is concerned if you put him in a going outfit, he will pretty near go with it. I have never seen much hesitation there.

I have seen outfits that have never been subject to combat and whose officers had not had much experience with it, freeze. Sometimes it takes a few hours to get them unfrozen and sometimes it takes a few weeks, but, ordinarily, with all of them they will fit in. They get going. I think that is a fact that if you are in a going organization, they will go.

Senator LONG. Here is a question that I had in mind. When you speak of a going organization I can visualize that sometime a few years from now that term, "going organization," could apply to a group where the men were trained, well trained, with a reasonable number of Reserves thrown into the ranks. The question I had in mind is: The trained Regular soldier who never actually has been under gunfire as compared to one who has actually had combat experience before, will he be subject to the problems of those without seasoning and who have not been under actual fire to the degree you have described, and whether they could be depended upon?

General MCLAIN. I have found this with the Regular soldier. Usually if he is in the Army, he is under the philosophy that if we have a war, and have to go and fight, that he has to go and do it. That is his thinking.

I found in some of the organizations the boy who had been raised in the era when we had that old song, I Did Not Raise My Boy To Be a Soldier, he has grown up under that philosophy. He did not think that he would have to go, because his mother told him that or somebody else told him that. Suddenly Pearl Harbor came and we reached out and got him. He was completely bewildered.

I think it is the philosophy of the thing that has as much to do with it as anything else. In fact, I think that would be one of the great benefits of UMT, because they would be having impressed upon them what we have got that is worth fighting for. And that as a part of this society he has as much responsibility as anybody else.

I am satisfied if they are raised under that and they get to the battlefield, they will not hesitate like the fellow who is bewildered because he thought he would never have to fight.

Admiral KINCAID. I think that the answer to your question is nothing can possibly replace combat experience.

Senator LONG. The question in my mind is that, in the initial stages of battle, no matter how well trained men may be who have not had previous experience in battle against the enemy, they simply could not perform as well as those who had had experience. After the first month or two of combat, it might be different, but it would seem to me that in the initial stage there is nothing that would substitute for actual experience.

General MCLAIN. If they are right alongside a veteran they will usually go, and if the veteran is killed, they will freeze until somebody else comes along. However, they pick that up pretty soon.

Generally if they are put in with veterans, they go right along. And do not have any trouble.

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Soup; types, classes and procedure for making
Canned food

Conservation of food

Characteristics and uses of condiments and seasonings
Reconstitution and cooking of dehydrated food

Food conservation through cleanliness and sanitation
Food poisoning

Baking section:

Nomenclature and maintenance of bake-shop equipment

Leavening agents; characteristics, sources, functions and keeping
qualities

Flour; grades and kinds, characteristics, uses, and keeping qualities
Carbohydrates; characteristics, sources, and functions

Milk; types, functions, and nutritive value

Eggs; grades and functions

Fats and oils in bakery products

Principles of bread making

Mixing and baking cake

Mixing and baking quick breads

Mixing and baking pies and pastries

Preparation of gelatin products

Preparation of custards and puddings

Preparation of fillings, frostings, and dessert sauces

Steward's training:

Organization of the Navy

Organization and administration of messes

Mess allowance and equipment

Nature of duties

Qualifications for stewards

Personal hygiene and good health habits

Wardroom duties

Pantry duties

Cleaning and bactericidal treatment of utensils and equipment

The importance of meat, soup, dairy products, fruit, vegetables, and

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FAIRNESS OF UMT VERSUS SELECTIVE SERVICE STATUS

Chairman RUSSELL. In the course of the hearings in the other body which I looked through hastily the question arose repeatedly about the unfairness of having one boy drafted for UMT and another boy being drafted for service in the Armed Forces.

I think that I can answer the question, but I would like to have the Commission answer that for the record as to whether that will be actually something that will occur. That is, one boy being drafted

for UMT and being able thereby to avoid service, whereas another is called under selective service for service in the Armed Forces.

. Mr. WADSWORTH. General McLain covered that point yesterday, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps he would be willing to repeat his statement concerning it.

General MCLAIN. Now you draft one man and he goes and serves 2 years, comes back and you place him in the Reserve and he is liable to go again.

The man who is not drafted for service, takes no training, so if you wanted to get him, you would have to train him 4 months, and in the meantime you would have to call out the veteran to go again, just like we did in Korea.

While you would be drafting one man for service and another one for training, you are now drafting one man for service and the other fellow goes scot free. He is not even available in the Reserve. He does not have a Reserve status, has had no training. It takes 4 months after you call him before he would be ready. In the meantime, you would have to have the veteran and you would be calling on him the second time.

Chairman RUSSELL. I recall your statement on that yesterday. Of course, I have made the argument in times past that one man might fight two or three wars and another fight none at all.

General MCLAIN. I think there is another erroneous statement, Mr. Chairman. We have always said that UMT does not turn out any end product. As a matter of fact, I have made the mistake of saying that in some of my talks on UMT, that UMT turns out no end product. But it does, a very definite 'end product.

It turns out a soldier sufficiently well trained so that he can become a replacement in a going organization, whether it is in training, in a holding position, or whether on the battlefield. He would have more training than the recruit that we are sending to Korea right now.

We are giving them 4 months' training, and if they go into an organization, that enables them to fit in.

It is an end product, because it does give you the trained man necessary to bring organizations up to strength. You will remember that in Japan the units were all under strength. We could have sent them directly in there within a matter of a few weeks, if we had had them, and we would not have had that long period when we were driven almost back to Pusan.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Would the chairman yield for a question on that point?

Chairman RUSSELL. I will be glad to yield to the Senator from Massachusetts.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you.

Under the bill that has now come to us from the House, on page 27 of that bill, section 140, it says that no person who completes 6 months of basic training in the corps and thereafter is appointed in or transferred to a Reserve component of the Armed Forces shall be ordered to active duty in the Armed Forces without his consent for a period in excess of 30 days of continuous duty, except in such manner and in such numbers as the Congress may hereafter determine.

May not that work out very unfairly, because that means just what you have said, the man who has this training under the UMT, put

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