Mr. CASE. I note on page 172 of the justifications you have an item in this over-all figure, of $414,234 for the pay of temporary labor for opening and closing graves in national cemeteries to be established in Hawaii, Guam, and Puerto Rico.

General LARKIN. Yes.

Mr. CASE. In view of the question that has been asked about Guam would have to be separated.

General LARKIN. Yes.

Mr. CASE. In the figures which are shown on page 175, which deal with the zone of the interior, are the civilian employees in the zone of the interior covered by the general rules and laws applicable to civilian employees of the War Department in the United States? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

TRAVEL OF CIVILIAN AND MILITARY PERSONNEL

Mr. ENGEL. The next project is set out on page 179, travel of civilian and military personnel, $5,781,251.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, project 240, travel of civilian personnel and military personnel: The total program amounts to $5,781,251, of which $3,298,699 has been appropriated, $960,349 is requested for the fiscal year 1949, and the deferred portion of the program amounts to $1,522,203.

This project is for the travel of military and civilian personnel involved in inspection trips and for travel of civilian employees to and from their place of residence and overseas, the travel of personnel involved in military honors at grave sites, and for the travel of personnel from distribution points to the residence of the next of kin.

TRAVEL FOR MILITARY HONORS

Mr. ENGEL. What is the travel for military honors?

Colonel MARSHALL. That is when we are required to furnish the honor guard at the grave site where the local organization is unable to handle the honors.

Mr. ENGEL. That is, voluntarily.

General HORKAN. Yes. The American Legion and other veterans' organizations handle a considerable portion of that, but we have found that we have to provide some of it.

Colonel MARSHALL. It also involves the travel expense within the overseas theaters in relation to this program.

RETURN TRANSPORTATION TO UNITED STATES

Mr. ENGEL. You have down here on page 180 as a part of this appropriation, return transportation to the United States for Department of the Army Civilian Employees from overseas, $1,267,388. General LARKIN. Yes.

Mr. ENGEL. You already have used this $560,000 for some of those coming back?

Colonel MARSHALL. No; this total, the amount of the appropriation, has not all been obligated; some of that money will be available for the payment of this transportation. Of the amount appropriated, $3,298,699, only $330,000 has been obligated.

Mr. ENGEL. Of the $2,000,000?

Colonel MARSHALL. Of the $3,000,000, plus, appropriated, $320,000 has been obligated to date. Of course, the biggest obligations will come in the next year when the civilians come back.

ESTIMATE OF UNOBLIGATED BALANCE

Mr. ENGEL. How much carry-over are you going to have for the next year that will not be obligated at the end of this fiscal year? Colonel MARSHALL. We will not know that until we go into the end of the fiscal year.

Mr. ENGEL. Of course, you can only know that, and yet you are asking for this additional amount of money.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

General HORKAN. We have estimated on the basis of existing experience how many employees are going to come back during the fiscal year 1949.

Mr. ENGEL. You had to make that estimate last year, too.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

Mr. ENGEL. And you have only obligated $320,000.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

Mr. ENGEL. About 10 percent of the total amount appropriated. Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

Mr. ENGEL. Do you expect to obligate the 90 percent remaining during the next 4 or 5 months?

Colonel MARSHALL. No. The obligations will go over into the fiscal year 1949, but we intend to use the balance of the $3,000,000 that was appropriated to pay for those expenses, and in addition, the $960,000 we are asking for.

Of course, the program calls for the shipment and return of civilian personnel which will involve the balance of the $3,000,000 plus the anticipated need of $960,000.

COURIER OFFICER SERVICE

Mr. CASE. Mr. Chairman, on page 179, I note this statement:

To insure expeditious delivery of disinterment directives to overseas headquarters, it has been determined that the officer courier is the most practicable method to be used.

I think we ought to have a little explanation of that statement. I do not understand why you think it will be necessary to have officer courier service to make those deliveries.

General HORKAN. These disinterment directives show the disposition of the body.

When we started in on this program we thought we could use the air mail in place of courier service. We started some disinterment directives for Europe and they ended up in Hawaii, so we feel that it is better to send someone with these disinterment directives when they go overseas, because if they get lost we are in a terrible jam; it delays the whole operation overseas and it closes for the time being the exhumations in the cemetery.

Mr. CASE. How does the courier or the agent carry the directives? General HORKAN. They are sent with the courier.

Mr. CASE. They go by airplane?

General HORKAN. They go by airplane.

General LARKIN. They go ATC or commercial air.

Mr. CASE. Is it your thought that mail handled by the ATC destined for Europe would land in Hawaii?

General HORKAN. I think that was the exception, but I mean it shows what can happen.

Mr. CASE. How many times has that happened?

General HORKAN. Once.

Mr. CASE. And on that once you would establish the officer courier service?

General HORKAN. We feel that it is so important that we should have a man to deliver these disinterment directives overseas and also to return the passenger lists that are coming back in order to have the passenger list in this country before the ship arrives so that notices to next of kin can be gotten out.

Mr. CASE. Could that not be accomplished by radiograms?

General HORKAN. No; take 6,000 names that would all be coming back

Mr. CASE. Could they not come back air?

General HORKAN. We feel that it is so important to get them back, in advance of the arrival of the ship in order to get notification out, get the structure set up for notifying the next of kin by telegram as soon as the bodies arrive, that we must have these passenger lists back in advance; we feel it is so important, we make use of a courier. Mr. CASE. Do you mean you supply the passenger lists

General HORKAN. That means these individuals who come back use the regular planes.

Mr. CASE. How much money is there in this for officer courier travel?

General HORKAN. It is a small amount for that. We also use people who are coming back.

Mr. CASE. Then you would not require as much for that purpose. General HORKAN. No. There are many cases where they have to go to India where we have to use other than regular air travel; to North Africa and India, on other than the Army transportation.

Mr. CASE. With respect to the item to which you have just referred, where you say members of veterans' organizations will not be available and where you are required to furnish escorts to grave sites; that happens in less than 10 percent of the cases where the next of kin asked for military burial, does it not?

General HORKAN. As a matter of fact, the percentage is running to about 13.

Mr. CASE. Do not most of the veterans' organizations in the counties take care of that?

General HORKAN. We have been working with the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and various other veterans' organizations. We have had very close contact with them. We send out these passenger lists, when we get them back from overseas; to the headquarters of the American Legion in Indianapolis, and to the Veterans of Foreign Wars here in Washington, and they in turn send them to each State, to the State commander of the American Legion or of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who in turn contact the local offices where these bodies are to be returned, and they call on the next of kin with a view of being of assistance. Where a military funeral is requested they turn out for that military funeral. They furnish the firing squad for the funeral and other equipment.

However there are some places, not very many, where they cannot do it, where the men are not in position, where they cannot get away for some reason or another, and in those cases we have to furnish regular troops for the funeral honors.

Up to date the Army has had to handle 13 percent of the military funerals which have been furnished.

Mr. CASE. That seems to me to be very high. In my own State it would be difficult for me to conceive of any county where the veterans organization in the county or the city would not see to it that there was some representation at any funeral, at any cemetery in the county. What you say might be possible in some of the larger

counties.

General HORKAN. We do not have any trouble in your State and we do not have any in North Dakota, but there are certain places where the veterans have been unable to do this, and where families have asked for military funerals and where we feel it is necessary that it be done. For instance, in West Virginia we have had to use troops several times.

We can give you a break-down showing the make up of the 13 percent.

Mr. CASE. Of course, I want the boys to have a military funeral if the next of kin want it.

· General HORKAN. Yes.

Mr. CASE. But in my area it would be considered such an honor to provide that service that the veterans organizations make every effort to do it.

General HORKAN. I think in the majority of places the veterans' organizations are doing a magnificient job, but there are certain cases in certain places where for one reason or another they cannot. Mr. CASE. There maybe in some isolated places, but it seems to me that 13 percent would be pretty high.

General HORKAN. As I say, I can give you a detailed break-down on that by Army and by States. The inability of veterans' groups to provide graveside burial honors for returned World War II deceased in a number of instances has necessitated the use of military personnel. The following indicates the percentage of honors which have been provided by military and by other personnel:

No information has been received from the First Army area.

MERCHANT MARINE DEATHS

Mr. CASE. I notice on page 182 of the justifications you have an item of $450,000 for travel in connection with the concentration of approximately 2,000 isolated merchant marine deaths at an estimated average cost of $225 per remains.

I am interested first of all to know that you are taking care of the merchant marine deaths. But has that been the policy of the War Department over a period of time?

General HORKAN. In these particular cases, after we had started on this program the State Department asked us to take over the return of certain of these marchant marine bodies that were drowned and were found in various countries. In some cases we had left the area, before they were transferred to us, and when they turned the program over to us, we had to send our personnel back to recover them.

Mr. CASE. Are you being reimbursed by the Maritime Commission? General LARKIN. No.

Mr. CASE. Under what law was the responsibility placed upon the War Department to enter into this service?

General HORKAN. Public Law 383 authorizes it, and under that we are authorized to return people in a civilian capacity.

Mr. CASE. Does that provide for anything more than taking care of bringing them back?

General HORKAN. It provides for bringing them back and a casket to bring them back in.

Mr. CASE. And for interment?

General HORKAN. Yes.

Mr. CASE. Are they entitled to be buried in a military cemetery? General HORKAN. NO.

Mr. CASE. There has been a great deal of complaint on the part of those who served in the merchant marine because they do not get the benefits of compensation which was provided for those in the services of the Army, the Navy, and Marine Corps; and hospital benefits as well.

General HORKAN. Yes.

General LARKIN. But was not the compensation for those people much higher?

Mr. ENGEL. I can answer that question. The bonuses paid in time of war equaled 102 percent of their total pay. I recall that a cook in the merchant marine got $5,000 a year. If you will turn to page 204 you will see a break-down of the average pay, and you will note the amount received in the way of bonuses; and the pay for rations. There is also reference to an item of $409. What is that for?

General LARKIN. That item of $409 is for the whole vessel, for the entire vessel.

Mr. CASE. Enlisted personnel in the Army were not permitted to join the national Maritime Union.

General LARKIN. NO.

Mr. CASE. And you did not permit strikes in the Army, did you? General LARKIN. No.

Mr. SCRIVNER. And when the men in the armed services got on shore they could not take 30, 60, or 90 days leave either.

General LARKIN. No.

Mr. ENGEL. And they received combat bonus long after the combat period was over. You will recall I went into that matter with the transportation service of the Army, and I put in the record a table showing the average earnings, which were high, and what they received in the way of additional pay for combat service long after combat was over.