Mr. SCRIVNER. That is, you have a typical runway. The runway on Harmon Field is an east and west runway; is it not? Mr. KRUSE. That is right. Mr. SCRIVNER. Principally east and west. Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. It could be stated that it is an east and west runway? Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. And it is at the point where I am placing my pencil, across Marine Drive and east of the Navy hospital? Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. How far from the west end of this runway is it to the site of the proposed cemetery? Mr. KRUSE. That particular distance I do not have indicated on that map. Mr. SCRIVNER. Well, approximately. Mr. KRUSE. It is about a mile; as I remember the figures it is about 5.000 feet. Mr. SCRIVNER. And to the far corner, the south line of the proposed cemetery site would be approximately a mile from the west end of the runway? Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. Although the north line of the cemetery would be less than a half mile from the runway; would it? Mr. KRUSE. Yes. This is the runway here [indicating on map]. Mr. SCRIVNER. So that planes landing on Harmon Field from the west, the incoming planes, will fly directly over the cemetery site; would they not? Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. And planes taking off from the east would take off over that cemetery site. Mr. KRUSE. I do not know the general wind direction of the site. Mr. SCRIVNER. That would be substantially correct. Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. And in the event that we have another emergency arise it is fair to assume that Harmon Field would be one of the first objectives; would it not? Do you not think that would be true, General? General HORKAN. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. So that in making runs over Harmon Field in an attempt to destroy the field the planes would drop bombs on the proposed cemetery site? General HORKAN. That is possible. Mr. SCRIVNER. Why were not borings made before the present site of the cemetery was selected to determine the water level? General HORKAN. The burials were made in that field during the war. Mr. SCRIVNER. If that is true with all the years of experience that has been had by the Army in the establishment of cemeteries one would assume that somebody in the Army having knowledge of cemeteries would know that was one of the first inquiries that had to be made; that is, determining the water level at the site of the cemetery. General HORKAN. During the war that was under the jurisdiction of the officer in charge, and I imagine his selection was influenced by the fighting that was going on. The cemetery was located during the war. Mr. SCRIVNER. This Army cemetery site is not very far from the site of the permanent Guamanian cemetery, is it? General HORKAN. I beg your pardon. Mr. SCRIVNER. The native Guam cemetery; it is just a short distance from this proposed cemetery, where you now have it? General HORKAN. That is correct. Mr. KRUSE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. The Guamanian cemetery is going to continue as a permanent cemetery; is it not? General HORKAN. I assume that is correct Now, the question of using this proposed site at Guam, where the bodies are buried now, was submitted to the officials on Guam. Personally we would like to have kept the present site, because it would have been much easier to handle. The matter was submitted to the Government of Guam, the Army, the Navy, the Air Corps people, all those involved in that area. There were three sites under consideration. The present site, which we felt would be easier for administration; the second one was at Tumon Bay, and the third Mount Barrigoda. All locations were studied very thoroughly; they were considered for a considerable length of time and the final selection on this was held up until the people on Guam could make a determination as to which was the best location for this cemetery. Mr. SCRIVNER. Who owns the present site? General HORKAN. Where the bodies are? Mr. SCRIVNER. Where you have the present cemetery. General HORKAN. The Government owns the land. Mr. SCRIVNER. Yes. General HORKAN. Some of it is privately owned, some of it is owned by the church. Mr. SCRIVNER. What arrangement was made at the outset to use this area as a cemetery? General HORKAN. It was rented, a rental paid on it. General LARKIN. Arrangement was made, Mr. Scrivner, by the local authorities out there, between the local military authorities and the Government to use it. Mr. SCRIVNER. That is what I am trying to find out. Certainly it seems to have been a short-sighted policy as I see it now, maybe hindsight is better than foresight. I think you gave the figure somewhere around 12,000 burials. Mr. SCRIVNER. It would seem to me that it should have been anticipated that this would be a fairly permanent cemetery and the arrangements made upon the thinking that it would be permanent. General HORKAN. The cemetery was created during the war and the arrangements apparently were made at that time. Mr. SCRIVNER. Who knows the exact status of it? Mr. ALBEE. The site you speak of has about 1,600 burials. Mr. SCRIVNER. That sounds more like it. Mr. ALBEE. However we now have about 12,000 remains in Guam. Mr. SCRIVNER. The statement was made just a while ago that there were 12,000 burials. Mr. ALBEE. No; in storage. Mr. SCRIVNER. Í took note a while ago when it was said there were 12,000 burials; someone just made that statement that there would be 12,000, and now you say 1,600, more or less. Mr. ALBEE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. I have some pictures that I made, which I think will bear me out. You now say that in this one cemetery in Guam the burials there are 1,600. Mr. ALBEE. That is the one cemetery; that is right. The rest of the remains are in the mausoleum, in storage. Mr. SCRIVNER. That is a different thing, and the figures you just gave are confusing, and that is why I want to have it understood just what is involved. I want to go along with anything that is reasonable, but frankly I do not think that the justifications have been presented in as clear a way as they might have been. The picture you have now given is that the burials that have already been made are approximately 1,600 and that the large number you refer to is due to the remains in storage or mausoleums. Mr. ALBEE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. Why was that not said at the outset? Mr. ALBEE. I intended to convey that thought when I said there were 12,000 remains in storage; I am sorry if I misstated it. Mr. SCRIVNER. Your first statement was 12,000 burials. Mr. CASE. The Chairman's question was that you had three categories. Mr. SCRIVNER. Yes. Mr. CASE. I think it should be correct for the record, if the previous statement was not a proper statement the fact should be correct. Mr. ENGEL. There is no question in my mind as to what it was. Mr. MAHON. The previous statement is in the record and the witness can determine by what has been developed at the time it is corrected. Mr. CASE. Mr. Chairman, let us have just a summary so the record will be clear; there was a break-down of three different categories, totaling about 33,000. PRESENT CEMETERIES AT GUAM NUMBER OF BODIES Mr. SCRIVNER. In order that the record may be clear may I ask somebody to give me a definite statement now of how many bodies are buried in the cemetery at Guam. Mr. ALBEE. There are now three cemeteries, a total of approximately 2,700. Mr. SCRIVNER. Where are those three cemeteries? Mr. ALBEE. The Army-Navy and Marine Cemetery, No. 1, 595; Army-Navy and Marine Cemetery, No. 2, 1,567; and Army-Navy and Marine Cemetery, No. 3, 545. In addition to that there are approximately 9,000 or 10,000 in mausoleums. Mr. ENGEL. Those that are buried. Mr. ALBEE. On Guam. Mr. ENGEL. On Guam. Mr. ALBEE. Already in the ground. Mr. ENGEL. That makes a total of how many? Mr. ALBEE. Approximately 2,700. Mr. SCRIVNER. There are 9,000 to 10,000 in mausoleums? Mr. ALBEE. Right. Mr. SCRIVNER. On Guam? Mr. ALBEE. Yes. Mr. SCRIVNER. Now your next statement was what? NUMBER OF BODIES AT OKINAWA ΤΟ BE TRANSFERRED TO GAUM Mr. ALBEE. The next statement is that there are approximately 10,000 remaining on Okinawa of which the permanent burials will be on Guam. Mr. SCRIVNER. There are 10,000 from where? Mr. ALBEE. Okinawa. Mr. SCRIVNER. That would be a total of how many? Mr. ALBEE. That makes a total of around 22,000 remaining-22,688 to be exact. LOCATION OF CEMETERIES AT GUAM Where is the Mr. SCRIVNER. All right, now, let us go back one step. Army, Navy, and Marine cemetery, No. 1, that has 595 remains in it? Mr. ALBEE. I do not know the location. Mr. SCRIVNER. But the one that you are speaking about now that has 1,600 in it is Army and Navy cemetery, No. 2? Mr. ALBEE. That is the one you were speaking of, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. I would like to have the location of each of those three cemeteries, so that we will know what we are talking about. Does not anybody here know where they are located? General LARKIN. We will furnish that for the record. Mr. ALBEE. Yes, sir. By reference to the map furnished the committee, it will be noted that the three cemeteries are located at Ogat on the western side of the island and at Asan and Agana at the northerly side. (The following was submitted later:) The Tumon Bay site (proposed site for the national cemetery) consists of approximately 150 acres of land, partially United States Government owned. The Agat Military Cemetery is presently located on lands owned by the United States of America, and adjacent property of sufficient acreage to allow for additional expansion of over 100 acres is presently owned by either the United States of America (approximately 50 acres) or the naval government of Guam. cemetery is well located, away from all business areas of the island, yet accessible to all parts of the island via hard surface roads. This The Agana Military Cemetery is located on land owned by the Catholic Church and the topography allows for no further expansion thereof. The Asan Military Cemetery is located on privately owned lands and the adjacent area does not sufficiently allow for expansion thereof. QUESTION AS TO NECESSITY FOR SPEED IN TRANSFER OF BODIES Mr. SCRIVNER. In view of the present indefinite plans as they relate to Guam, I am wondering what the necessity is for the speed of the immediate transfer of these remains in the cemeteries, not only on Guam, but all of the remains on Okinawa. What is the demand for this speed? Mr. ALBEE. We will remove those remains from Okinawa to the United States and Guam. Mr. SCRIVNER. That does not answer my question at all. What is the necessity for such speedy removal of remains from Okinawa, when we have troops there, and we will have for many years to come? General HORKAN. Well, Mr. Scrivner, the next of kin want the bodies returned. Mr. SCRIVNER. Yes, that is all right; I will go along with you on that. General HORKAN. When we return some of the bodies to the United States those that stay over there should be assembled and buried in a permanent cemetery. Mr. SCRIVNER. Why, yes, as to those parents or next of kin who want the remains returned from Okinawa, give them just that service as it is what we have said we would give them. It is what they are entitled to expect, but why is there any necessity then for removing all of the remains to some other spot right now? General HORKAN. Well, we want to do this thing in an orderly manner, and those which are going to stay over there should be buried promptly in the location in which they are going to stay, and those which are going to be brought back should be brought back. General LARKIN. You understand, Mr. Scrivner, that Okinawa is not to be a permanent cemetery. Mr. SCRIVNER. Yes; I understand that perfectly, General. Why is it not possible, then, as a practical proposition, to remove those for which there is a request for the return to the United States and leave the remainder of them on Okinawa until there is more definite knowledge of what the final status of Guam and Okinawa and the other islands is going to be? General HORKAN. We want to clear this program up as soon as we can, and it costs money to carry it on, and we want to get those boys buried in the locations in which they are going to stay. Mr. SCRIVNER. I understand the cost involved. General HORKAN. And we feel that it should be done as shortly after the other bodies are returned to the United States as it is possible to do it. Mr. SCRIVNER. Then you are possibly going to run into the same situation there, I suppose, as you ran into in the Philippines, that is, the plans are not definitely enough fixed. General HORKAN. They are fixed in the Philippines and Guam now. Mr. SCRIVNER. But they were not fixed 60 days ago? General HORKAN. No, sir; we only got approval in the Philippines in the last 30 days. Mr. SCRIVNER. The plans were not definite 60 days ago? General HORKAN. Yes, sir, that is correct, but they are definite in the Philippines and in Guam now. REMOVAL OF BODIES FROM SAIPAN Mr. SCRIVNER. Let us move on down to Saipan. I visited these cemeteries over there, and I have the same feeling about the situation that Mr. Case expressed. There is, of course, that sentimentality |