involved about the idea of the men remaining near where they fell, remaining in these cemeteries. There at Saipan you can look back and you can see the old sugar mill, and you can see Hill 560 and all of that terrain where these men lost their lives. The cemetery there is being kept up in very fine shape. It is a beautiful cemetery. I have pictures of that cemetery as well as all of the others too, in color. Apparently we are going to maintain some sort of a station in Saipan for some little time to come. So we may well take a little time to definitely determine whether the way is clear for speedy removal of the remains from Saipan.

General HORKAN. The program is definitely under way with the cemetery located at Guam. We know where we want it, and we want to progress on this program as speedily as we possibly can, and we feel with the cemetery at Guam that these bodies should be moved in there at the earliest possible date.

Mr. SCRIVNER. A while ago you gave as one of the reasons the fact that some persons may want to go out and visit the graves there. Of course you know, and I know, that there are going to be very few next of kin that are going to be able to make that trip. If they can make it as far as Guam it would not be too difficult for them to go as far as Saipan.

General HORKAN. Yes, and we have Guam and the Philippines and Hawaii as a definite part of the program. These three cemeteries are definitely located in the Pacific. The program calls for the bodies to be returned in the near future to the United States, that is, those that are coming back to the United States, and I feel that the right thing to do, and the right approach is that as soon as the bodies come back to the United States, those which are going to stay over there should be buried permanently in the location in which they are going to stay.

Mr. SCRIVNER. In completing that program are you going to follow the program that you set up of telling these parents, "Your boy is now buried at Saipan. In view of the fact that we must move him to a permanent cemetery you now have your choice of either having your son's remains returned to the United States or buried in the permanent cemetery at Guam"?

General HORKAN. That is correct.

Mr. SCRIVNER. So that when the removal of the remains is made it will be made direct to the United States, and not from Saipan to Guam, and then from Guam to the United States?

General HORKAN. Yes; they will be notified when they arrive at Guam.

PROCESSING OF REMAINS

Mr. SCRIVNER. Where will the processing of these remains take place, at Guam or Saipan?

General HORKAN. You are referring to the processing now or the identification?

Mr. SCRIVNER. That is at Saipan now, is that correct?

Mr. ALBEE. It would be at Guam in the mausoleum. Of course, there is the grave site identification too, which will be at Saipan, and the final processing will be at Guam.

Mr. SCRIVNER. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman, for the present. I do want to ask General Larkin after awhile some questions about headstones.

Mr. ENGEL. Judge Kerr.

Mr. KERR. Yes, may I just ask a question or two. I think it is the inescapable assumption that these United States troops who were killed in what we call the Pacific area are either to be buried there or else sent back here to their homes where their families wish them to be buried; that is correct; is it not?

General HORKAN. Yes.

CEMETERIES IN PACIFIC AREA

Mr. KERR. How many cemeteries do we have in the Pacific area? General HORKAN. There will be three cemeteries there, that is, permanent cemeteries, one at Guam, one in the Philippines, and one in Hawaii.

Mr. KERR. That is correct; and there you will collect the bodies of all of the boys that were killed and buried in this Pacific area; that is, you will ultimately collect them into these three cemeteries?

General HORKAN. That is correct. Those to be brought home will be brought home as promptly as possible, and those to remain overseas will be buried in those three cemeteries.

TIME LIMIT ON REMOVAL OF BODIES FROM CEMETERIES

Mr. KERR. Now, when they are buried in those cemeteries does the law contemplate that they can be removed later if their families want them to be removed, after they have been buried in those permanent cemeteries?

General HORKAN. Yes, sir; up until December 31, 1951.

Mr. KERR. I had an idea there was a time limit on that, and

say it is up to December 31, 1951?

General HORKAN. Yes, sir; up until December 31, 1951.

NUMBER OF BODIES TO BE BURIED AT GUAM

you

Mr. KERR. I believe it is contemplated that in Guam you propose to collect about 2,500 dead?

General HORKAN. No, sir; there will be more than that there.
Mr. KERR. How many will there be?

General HORKAN. The number assembled there will be about

22,000, I would say.

Mr. ALBEE. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. KERR. About 22,000?

General HORKAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KERR. And that will be the largest of the three cemeteries, will it not?

General HORKAN. The full 22,000 will not be buried at Guam, but Guam will be one of the larger cemeteries.

Mr. KERR. What are you going to do with those 22,000?

General HORKAN. Part of them will come back, and part of them will remain there.

General LARKIN. Depending on the wishes of the next of kin.
Mr. KERR. How many do you propose to bury at Guam?
General HORKAN. Approximately 10,000.

Mr. KERR. 10,000?

General HORKAN. Yes, sir; approximately.

Mr. KERR. And the others who were killed there are to be brought back in pursuance of law at the request of the next of kin? General HORKAN. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. KERR. And after they are buried there they stay there unless the next of kin ask that they be removed within the limit fixed by law? General HORKAN. Yes, sir; within the time limit set by Congress.

CAPACITY OF GUAM CEMETERY FOR BODIES FROM OTHER CEMETERIES

Mr. KERR. How many cemeteries will that cemetery at Guam take care of? There are cemeteries scattered throughout the Pacific area. General HORKAN. Eighteen.

Mr. KERR. Eighteen?

General HORKAN. Yes.

Mr. KERR. And if you put them all together they can be looked after better in one cemetery than if they are scattered over the whole territory where people probably will become hostile to us?

General HORKAN. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. KERR. I do not believe I have any further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MAHON. There have been a good many detailed questions asked, but if you have given the answer on a certain detail in which I am interested, I am not aware of it. At the end of the war we had available overseas as a result of World War II the remains of how many service people?

General HORKAN. 286,170.

Mr. MAHON. As the result of the interrogatories which you have sent out to the next of kin how many are to be returned to the United States?

General HORKAN. About 180,000-170,748.

ESTIMATE OF NUMBER OF BODIES TO REMAIN OVERSEAS

Mr. MAHON. Approximately how many do you anticipate will remain overseas when the program is finally completed and all of the requests are in?

General HORKAN. 115,422.

Mr. MAHON. Now, I definitely feel, as I have previously indicated, that before the Government makes a decided move in the disposition of the remains of a soldier or a serviceman that the family should be notified. I can also well understand why some people might say, "Well, I would like to have my son remain at or near where he fell in battle, but since he is not going to, I would just as soon he would be brought back to this country, as difficult as that may be." General LARKIN. Yes.

Mr. MAHON. And I think that inasmuch as you have not moved these people from Okinawa, and you are going to move them hundreds of miles from Okinawa to Guam, that you ought to just tell them what you are contemplating, and that you ought to give them a chance at that time, and before they are brought to Guam, to make their decision as to whether, under those circumstances, they want them brought home.

NOTIFICATION TO NEXT OF KIN AS TO REMOVAL OF BODIES

General HORKAN. When they were originally notified they were told that there would be three permanent cemeteries in the Pacific. Now, if they are buried anywhere other than in those three locations they know that they are going to be moved.

Mr. MAHON. Were they notified that there would be three locations in the Pacific, and what those locations would be?

General HORKAN. Yes; and the same is true in Europe. When the next of kin of the boys who were killed in Europe were notified in the poll letter which was sent out to them, there was a pamphlet index which showed a list of the permanent cemeteries over there, where if they wanted the body to remain overseas they would be buried in one of those cemeteries.

Mr. MAHON. Now, that sounds more sensible to me. In other words, it would be obvious to the next of kin who got the notice that if their son was buried in a certain cemetery, and it was not among those cemeteries which would be permanent, that he would, of necessity, be moved from that cemetery.

General HORKAN. Yes; that he would be moved.

Mr. MAHON. That is clear to me now, but you had not made that clear to me before.

Now, unlike others, who have expressed themselves in the committee, I feel that when you go into a cemetery, and you take a grave here, and you go over from that grave to another one on the other side, and from there to another one on the side, that you better take them all out in that cemetery rather than leave those unsightly places there or to have to go to the trouble of trying to make it look like a cemetery again.

General HORKAN. That is correct.

General LARKIN. Yes, sir; we do that.

Mr. MAHON. But I do insist that these people should have some warning about this thing which you are doing, and apparently they have that warning from what you say.

General HORKAN. They are notified in the original poll letter which is sent out as to where the cemeteries are going to be, and if their son is buried other than in a permanent cemetery they know his remains will be moved.

Mr. MAHON. That was not quite what I understood a little while ago. I thought earlier when you were talking about this that you said that they were given the option of determining whether they should remain in that area or come home, and I thought in the original notification that they were not necessarily given notice of a specific cemetery where they might be left or else come home.

Colonel MARSHALL. They are not told in the original poll letter that the boy's body will be buried in a certain cemetery. The next of kin is notified that the boy's body is at a certain place, and they are asked, Do you want the boy's body returned to the States or left overseas? In the same poll letter there is enclosed a pamphlet which sets out the permanent cemeteries overseas.

Mr. MAHON. I would like to have you place in the record what is said in the pamphlet on that question, not on other questions.

General HORKAN. We will furnish the committee with one of the poll letters.

Mr. SCRIVNER. I would like to have the poll letter go into the record too.

Mr. MAHON. Yes. I think it would be well to have the poll letter in the record, too, in order to have it clear.

(The matter referred to is as follows:)

POLL LETTER

The following is a copy of the poll letter which was sent to the next of kin. There was inclosed with this letter a slip giving the location of the permanent cemetery in which the remains would be buried if permanent overseas burial was desired. Prior to the dispatch of these poll letters the next of kin has been notified of the location at which the remains were temporarily buried. For example, where bodies were removed from the Normandy beachhead the next of kin were first notified that the body had been buried temporarily at Le Cambe, France. The poll letter subsequently dispatched informed the next of kin that if permanent burial overseas was desired the body would be moved to the permanent cemetery to be located at St. Laurent, Sur Mer, France. WAR DEPARTMENT,

OFFICE OF THE QUARTERMASTER GENERAL,
Washington 25, D. C.

In reply refer to burial of Sgt. James S. Roe, 3156742, Plot C, Row 13, Grave 25,
American Military Cemetery, St. Mere Eglise, France.
Mrs. JAMES J. ROE,

47 City Place, Santa Monica, Calif.

DEAR MRS. ROE: The people of the United States, through the Congress have authorized the disinterment and final burial of the heroic dead of World War II. The Quartermaster General of the Army has been entrusted with this sacred responsibility to the honored dead. The records of the War Department indicate that you may be the nearest relative of the above-named deceased, who gave his life in the service of his country.

The enclosed pamphlets, Disposition of World War II Armed Forces Dead, and American Cemeteries, explain the disposition, options, and services made available to you by your Government. If you are the next of kin according to the line of kinship as set forth in the enclosed pamphlet, Disposition of World War II Armed Forces Dead, you are invited to express your wishes as to the disposition of the remains of the deceased by completing part I of the enclosed form, "Request for Disposition of Remains." Should you desire to relinquish your rights to the next in line of kinship, please complete part II of the enclosed form. If you are not the next of kin, please complete part III of the enclosed form.

If you should elect option 2, it is advised that no funeral arrangements or other personal arrangements be made until you are further notified by this Office.

Will you please complete the enclosed form, "Request for Disposition of Remains" and mail in the enclosed self-addressed envelope, which requires no postage, within 30 days after its receipt by you? Its prompt return will avoid unnecessary delays.

Mr. MAHON. General Larkin, you made some statement about the increase in pay of indigenous personnel overseas.

General LARKIN. Yes, sir.