Mr. Scrivner, do you have some questions? STONE TO BE USED IN MARKERS Mr. SCRIVNER. General Larkin, I notice by the general statement in the justifications that in the program of furnishing markers for veterans' graves you anticipate using marble, granite, and bronze. General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. What has the experience of the quartermaster shown in comparison with the two stones, marble and granite, as to their durability? General LARKIN. The marble stones have a durable life of from 75 to 100 years. Granite has considerably more than that. I tried to ascertain from the Bureau of Standards what would be the life of granite, and they would not venture any figures on that. Mr. SCRIVNER. What is the comparative cost? General LARKIN. Some of the granite headstones we purchased in 1946 were $31.97. Marble headstones at that same time were $17.95. Mr. SCRIVNER. So that while granite is more durable, it is also more costly? General LARKIN. Yes, sir; considerably more costly. Mr. SCRIVNER. I notice in your justifications, while you anticipate the purchase of upright marble stones, there is apparently no anticipated use of upright granite. General LARKIN. Correct. Mr. SCRIVNER. And yet in the use of the flat granite the quotation here is $16.97. What is the difference in the specification of your flat granite and your upright granite that makes the difference in cost? General LARKIN. The upright granite is considerably larger than the flat granite Mr. SCRIVNER. And from what source have you been obtaining the granite stones you have been using up to now? General LARKIN. For the years 1945 and 1946 we obtained the stones from A. T. Fletcher in Massachusetts. Mr. SCRIVNER. Is that the granite stone? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. Do you have any figures at present that would indicate the present price of the upright granite as compared with the upright marble? General LARKIN. No, sir. Upright granite has gone up very little. Upright marble now is $19.25 for the fiscal year 1948 compared with $17.95 for fiscal year 1947; whereas the granite headstones which we did purchase-and there are only a few-cost us in October of 1946 $31.97. Mr. SCRIVNER. In calculating your needs for headstones, how much consideration do you give to the practice in each community, that is, the established practice in the local cemeteries as to the type of stone used? Do you follow that? General LARKIN. All cemeteries now, as far as I know, permit both types of stones, both granite and marble. Due to the fact the marble is so much more economical, we buy the marble now instead of the granite. The last purchase of the granite was made in 1946 when we purchased 20. In 1945 we purchased 27 of the granite. Mr. SCRIVNER. I notice on page 4 in justifying the item of travel you state it is necessary to make four trips to the marble and granite quarries and bronze factory, and there will be needed an increase in 1948, and you state one of the reasons is because there must be a contract with at least four more quarries since the facilities of the quarries now under contract are not adequate to produce the required number of headstones. Does that anticipate contracts with any granite quarries? General LARKIN. Not for the procurement of any upright granite stones. Mr. SCRIVNER. I assume from that it does anticipate some other quarry for the use of the flat granite? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. You anticipate flat granite will be somewhere in the neighborhood of the average price of $17.94? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. Do you anticipate this year, with the increase you run across all the way along the line, that your upright granite will be higher than $31.97? General LARKIN. I should think it would, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. Have you any idea approximately what the anticipated cost would be, basing it on the other increases? Would it be as much as $34 or $35? General LARKIN. I would judge it would be about $3 or $4 higher. Mr. SCRIVNER. So it would be about $35? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. SCRIVNER. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ENGEL. These headstones are made out of smaller pieces of stone which are left at the quarries after the mining of the regular marble or granite; is not that true? General LARKIN. No, sir. Major D'ALESANDRO. No, sir; they are not. They are cut from standard size blocks of granite at the quarry particularly for this business. If you get out and visit any of the quarries, you will see they cut up an 8-cubic-foot piece of marble into slabs by band saws, and then saw it down to the smaller pieces with a diamond saw. Mr. ENGEL. In prior years we were told each quarry always had some smaller pieces of granite; that they are going out here and mining granite for granite pillars and blocks in big buildings and they used the smaller pieces of granite which were too small to use for that purpose and sawed them up into the smaller tombstones for the veterans' graves. General LAREIN. The contractor might furnish that if he had the smaller stones on hand; because, after all, we do not need a headstone cut from a large piece. One made from a smaller piece he has on hand will give us the same headstone. Of course, such a factor as that would decrease the number available, with the increased quantity we are now purchasing. Mr. ENGEL. In other words, that was a period when you wanted 1,000 or 2,000 for the replacement of 100,000 headstones? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. ENGEL. And now you have 140,000. General LARKIN. We do not require them to cut up the larger slabs in order to produce smaller ones. HEADSTONES TO COVER NORMAL REQUIREMENTS Mr. ENGEL. On page 4, in breaking down your total of 146,616 headstones, you give the following justification To provide for the procurement of 53,640 headstones to cover normal requirements Is that for replacements? Colonel MARSHALL. That is replacements and the normal requirements for current deaths. Mr. ENGEL. In the Army? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; as separate from World War II returns in the Army and veterans. Mr. ENGEL. That includes World War I veterans and World War II? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. ENGEL. And the remainder of 92,975 is for marking graves of World War II returned from overseas? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes,sir. Mr. ENGEL. Is that the estimated number that is going to be brought back? Colonel MARSHALL. That is just for this year. There were some last year and will be some next year. Mr. ENGEL. Page 8 is just a break-down of the number of veterans? Colonel MARSHALL. It is a break-down of the different types of stones. Mr. ENGEL. That does not include headstones for soldiers who died in service, does it? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. This is for the different types of headstones. Mr. ENGEL. That includes headstones both for veterans who die after discharge and for soldiers who die while in the service? General LARKIN. That is right. HEADSTONES IN FOREIGN CEMETERIES Mr. KERR. When you bury these soldiers in foreign cemeteries, what sort of headpiece do you put there? Is it a marker that discloses his name and regiment, or is it just a stone that discloses there is a grave there? General LARKIN. No; it gives the information about the one buried there. Mr. KERR. Is it standard information you give, just saying who he was? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. KERR. Of what does that information consist? General HORKAN. The tombstones overseas after World War Iand it is assumed the Battle Monuments Commission will follow the same method used after World War I-were Carrara marble crosses with the men's names, ranks, serial numbers, and organization numbers. Mr. KERR. It does not disclose from what State he was or to what company he belonged? General LARKIN. It gives the organization. Mr. KERR. When you go to buy these markers in foreign cemeteries, do you find the material there, or do you have to make them here? Colonel MARSHALL. We do not buy those permanent markers; those are bought by the National Battle Monuments Commission after we turn the cemeteries over to them. Mr. KERR. Do you know where they buy them? General LARKIN. They would not be made in this country; they would be fabricated abroad. Mr. KERR. So that there is nothing in this appropriation where you are asking for any money for markers for cemeteries outside of this country? General LARKIN. No, sir. Mr. KERR. And the most of them are used, all of them, practically, in the United States? General LARKIN. That is correct. Mr. KERR. You say the larger percent of them are marble? COST OF MARKERS Mr. SCRIVNER. General, it is a little hard for me to reconcile some of your cost figures here. I notice on page 8 that the difference in cost between flat granite and flat marble is only $3.15; whereas apparently you estimate the difference between upright granite and upright marble would be almost $16. General LARKIN. Yes, sir. That is based on actual figures of what we have paid in the past. Mr. SCRIVNER. There seems to be too much disparity between the difference in the upright and the difference in the price of the flat. General LARKIN. I agree with you; there is a great deal of difference. Mr. SCRIVNER. Do you know what the reason is? General LARKIN. No, si; I do not. As a matter of fact, we had great trouble in 1946 in getting any granite bids at all. In February and March of 1946, we sent out 90 invitations and received no bids whatsoever. Then in the fall of 1946, we pursued the matter further and finally got two bids-the one I told you about from Fletcher in Massachusetts and another one from Columbus, Miss. Mr. SCRIVNER. Is there any difference between the Massachusetts granite and the Mississippi granite? General LARKIN. Yes, sir; the Columbus granite was $28 and the Massachusetts granite was $31.97. Mr. SCRIVNER. The Mississippi granite is softer and more porous? General LARKIN. Of course, the difference in cost of transportation warranted the award to the Massachusetts concern for the granite. Mr. SCRIVNER. Is there any difference in quality? General LARKIN. I could not tell you that offhand. Mr. SCRIVNER. What is the difference in the size of the upright slab and the flat? Major D'ALESANDRO. The upright slab is 4 inches by 13 by 42, and the flat granite is 4 by 13 by 24. CONSTRUCTION AT NATIONAL CEMETERIES INCLUDING ACQUISITION OF LAND Mr. ENGEL. We will take up the next project, No. 211, "Construction at national cemeteries, including the acquisition of land." The total for fiscal year ending June 30, 1949, is $2,344,467 as against an appropriation for 1948 of $1,184,440. That is approximately twice the amount you had last year. REASON FOR INCREASED COST Before we go into the details, just what is the reason for the increased cost? Colonel MARSHALL. $844,000 of that increase is for Guam, which we discussed this morning. Mr. ENGEL. That is for the Guam cemetery? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. Of the balance of around $400,000, at least $200,000 is for various projects within the national cemetery system which are in the manner of deferred maintenance. Of course, a lot of cemeteries have been in existence now since the Civil War, and some buildings are falling down. And as the occupancy of the cemetery increases, the buildings we have for storing and maintenance of vehicles, storing and maintenance of equipment, and so forth, are not sufficient. They were built back in the horse and buggy days, and now we have trucks, lawn mowers, tractors, and a larger type of equipment which must be kept under cover and must be maintained. In the estimate we have one item of increase on page 10 for the acquisition of 15 acres of land at Beverly, N. J., as an extension to the existing cemetery. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS OF CONTINGENCIES Mr. ENGEL. Before we get into that, on page 9 you have a breakdown into percentages of "Topographical surveys," and so forth, making up 100 percent. To what does that break-down applyto the entire appropriation of $2,344,467? Colonel MARSHALL. No, sir. In each one of those projects, you will notice an item "Miscellaneous items of contingencies.' In order to explain to the committee what the miscellaneous items of contingencies were, we have broken down that figure, using 100 percent as the basis, showing what the percentages are. Mr. ENGEL. In other words, the miscellaneous contingency item break-down shows Topographical surveys, 6.67 percent; plans, specifications, and administrative overhead, 40 percent; field inspections and administration, 20 percent; contingencies (changes in plans, increase in costs, unforeseen conditions of terrains, etc.), 33.33 percent making up the 100 percent of your miscellaneous items? General LARKIN. Yes, sir. Mr. ENGEL. What is the total of your miscellaneous items compared to the total appropriation in this estimate? Colonel MARSHALL. We do not have that itemized. We can put that in the record. Mr. ENGEL. I would like to have the total amount of the miscellaneous items in the record as to which this break-down applies. Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. The total for the various projects carried in this estimate is $117,024. |