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Mr. Engel. And in addition to that you are asking $160,413 for planning for next year. Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, Mr. Engel. Which all amounts to how much? General HORKAN. $2,029,189. Mr. NORRELL. Why are you asking for funds in this bill to be expended in 1950; is that not very unusual?

Colonel MARHSALL. These funds will be expended in 1949 in order to make preliminary surveys and site surveys for projects which we expect to present in 1950. The difficulty at the present time is that He get the preliminary planning money as of the beginning of the year in which we expect to do the construction, at the same time we get the construction money.

Mr. NoRRELL. That is, the planning funds would be used in the next fiscal year. Colonel MARSHALL. That is correct.

Mr. ENGEL. The difficulty as you have pointed out, is that in years 12 past you have been getting the funds for planning at the same time

the other money was being made available.

Colonel HORKAN. That is right. Mr. Engel. The funds for advance planning requested here will enable you to complete your surveys in advance. You have had to do the planning at the same time the construction money was available. General Larkin. That is exactly it.

Mr. Engel. Whereas, if you can get the funds for planning in w advance you can present your program based on studies that have 10 been made and vou will not be restricted necessarily to a program

that has been outlined and adopted at the time the construction funds are made available.

Colonel MARSHALL. Under the present system we must prepare the plans in the Office of the Chief Engineer based on certain standards.

Mr. ENGEL. And if you should happen to come before the committee and justify that particular project and get the money for that particular project you are restricted to it; whereas under the proposed plan you can point out that over here is a site that has been studied and we think it is out and suggest this or the other site. Colonel MARSHALL. Yes.

Mr. Engel. And you can do that in advance without confining Four activities to any particular site, and you may come back and point difficulties that you might run into suggesting the necessity for changing sites.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes. That is one of the purposes of the expenditure.

Mr. Norrell. Now, Mr. Chairman, I have one other question. We have had national cemeteries for a long, long time in this country, I know that a certain amount of expansion is necessary, but now I at wondering when we may expect this item to be deleted from the General Larkin. The item of expansion? Mr. SORRELL. The item we are discussing here for advanced planning. Is that a recurring and continuing item from year to year down through the years?

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Colonel MARSHALL. As long as the cemeteries expand, and as long as our demand for increased burial area is maintained we must continue to develop areas which have not been heretofore developed, and therefore we must plan for them.

Mr. NORRELL. You have to have this program which has been already inaugurated for the expansion of cemeteries?

Colonel MARSHALL. That is right.

Mr. NoRRELL. And this means additional surveys for additional expansion?

Colonel MARSHALL. No, not necessarily. This $2,000,000 that we have planned for for 1950 is within our long-range program, and this $160,000 would be in the 1950 Budget as part of the miscellaneous items and contingencies, but by doing it this way we make the funds available in 1949 in order to present the committee with what we think to be a more comprehensive set of plans under the long-range program.

Mr. NORRELL. I think this is one item, the expansion of national cemeteries, where certainly we ought to be able in the foreseeable future to eliminate it, because we have an adequate military cemetery program in this country. I do not believe you will ever use the space you have already.

Nobody wants to object to any legitimate expense in the field of military cemeteries or national cemeteries, but we do want to move with some degree of conservatism and caution and be reasonable with the taxpayers of the country.

That is all.

UTILITY SERVICE AND MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR OF BUILDINGS AND

GROUNDS

Mr. ENGEL. Now, you have here cemeterial expenses, War Department, utility service and maintenance and repair of buildings and grounds, project 311. You had $737,323 for 1948, and you are asking for $835,000 for 1949, or an increase of about $100,000.

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; that is right. This project involves personal services for part-time employees who are employed in national cemeteries. As noted on page 70 there is temporary labor for maintenance of grounds, totaling 199 man-years.

PERSONAL SERVICES

Mr. ENGEL. Let us take up first personal services. You have here 284 positions and 269 man-years.

Colonel MARSHALL. That is the total.

Mr. Engel. That does not look like temporary employees when you have practically a man-year for every employee.

Colonel MARSHALL. Well, our temporary labor for this year is going to be more or less permanent.

Mr. Engel. And you have there approximately $2,000 per man, have you not?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; just about. That is the labor cost per man.

Mr. ENGEL. Per man?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. ENGEL. What are those, day laborers?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. Those are the laborers that are in the cemeteries for keeping the grounds up and for doing all the miscellaneous work that is necessary in the maintenance and operation of a cemetery

They are divided into three categories. As you will see on page 71 of the justifications, the first category is labor for maintenance of grounds. The next category is for filling sunken graves, resetting, alining and cleaning headstones, and the third one is for tree surgery, which is for the upkeep of all of the shrubbery and trees, and so forth, in the cemeteries.

Mr. ENGEL. Do you have outside tree surgeons come in to do that work?

Colonel MARSHALL. We do very little of that type of work. Most of it is done by these people here.

Mr. ENGEL. These same people?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. In certain instances, where we have a blight or something that we cannot handle ourselves we must bring in outside people, but otherwise we do it ourselves.

Mr. ENGEL. Your work force does this surgery work?
Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; in the majority of cases.

LIGHT, POWER, ELECTRICITY, AND WATER The next item is electric power, light and water service, in the total amount of $15,694.

Mr. ENGEL. That is for all of the cemeteries?

Colonel MARSHALL. That is for all of the cemeteries, yes, sir. This comprises a break-down of three items: Electric light for cemeteries, $3,152; electric power to run the pumping plants and watering systems and mechanical tools, $6,900; and water rent paid to municipalities amounts to $5,642.

Mr. ENGEL. The first item, light, is for 38 of the existing cemeteries? Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ENGEL. That is about $100 per year per cemetery, and the second item is for electric power for the operation of cemetery facilities?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. ENGEL. For 26 cemeteries?
Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. ENGEL. And the third item is water rent for 51 cemeteries?
Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Engel. For sprinkling, and so forth?
Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. ENGEL. Proceed.

REPAIR AND ALTERATION OF BUILDINGS, STRUCTURES, ETC. Colonel MARSHALL. The next item is for the repair and alteration of buildings, structures, utilities and equipment and maintenance of grounds under contract in the amount of $274,913.

GENERAL REPAIRS

That is broken down into the item for buildings, amounting to $60,472. This is for the regular maintenance of existing buildings at an average price of about $193.20 per year per building.

Colonel MARSHALL. The next item is for the repair of existing roads in the amount of $53,383, based on the average amount of repair for approximately 62 miles of road at approximately $861 a mile.

The next item on page 76 is for the maintenance of water, sewerage, and drainage systems in all of the cemeteries in the amount of $15,617.

Mr. ENGEL. Can you insert in the record the amount that has been paid on each of those items for last year?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ENGEL. Will you put that in the record when you revise your remarks?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; we will put that in the record. (The matter referred to is as follows:)

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Colonel MARSHALL. The next item is for general repairs to walls, fences, and gates, amounting to $29,880.

Mr. ENGEL. In how many cemeteries?
Colonel MARSHALL. In all 79 cemeteries, sir.
Mr. ENGEL. Seventy-nine cemeteries?
Colonel Marshall. Yes, sir.

The next item is for the repair of flagstaffs, monuments, and tablets, in the amount of $17,264, which is also in all cemeteries.

The next item is for the repair of cemeterial equipment, such as lawn mowers, tree sprayers, air compressors, and like articles, amounting to $15,823 for the year for 79 cemeteries. The total amount in the general repair project is $192,439.

Mr. ENGEL. As compared to how much last year; do you have that figure?

Colonel MARSHALL. $140,000.

MINOR ALTERATIONS AND REPAIRS

The next number of items are for minor repairs to buildings and accessories at certain cemeteries, in line with the over-all program of doing so much repair work per year. This is in the total amount of $52,050.

The first is for general repairs to lodge and office building at Beverly National Cemetery in New Jersey in the amount of $2,650.

The second item is for repairs to the enclosing wall of the Cold Harbor National Cemetery, Va., $3,000.

The next item is for remodeling and repairing the combination lodge and office building at Grafton National Cemetery, W. Va., $4,000.

Following that is an item for reconditioning the combination lodge and office building at Loudon Park National Cemetery, Md., in the amount of $5,000.

The next item is for repair of the enclosing wall at the New Albany National Cemetery, Ind., in the amount of $3,000.

There is an item for the repair and alteration of lodge and office building at the Winchester National Cemetery, Va., in the amount of $5,400. This repair work is broken down into items as shown on page 81 of the justifications.

Mr. ENGEL. Wait a minute now. That is a frame and stone building?

Colonel MARSHALL. That is right. Mr. ENGEL. What work are you going to do on it; do you know? Colonel MARSHALL. We are planning a basement under it, sir. The underpinning is gone, and we are replacing it with concrete underpinning. We are replacing 840 square feet of 4-inch flooring, and replacing 7 windows, 2 doors, and installing 8 electric outlets.

Mr. ENGEL. At $10 an outlet?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir. That includes the labor. That is where it all is.

Mr. Engel. That is higher than in Washington. I had two plugs put in, and I did not furnish the material, at $9 for the first one, and $6 for the second one. This is $10 here, so you have it on Washington. They charge by the outlet, do they?

Colonel MARSHALL. Most of this is done by contract, in contract quantities.

Mr. ENGEL. Proceed.

Colonel MARSHALL. The next item is for changing the location of water softener. The next item is for revamping drains and plumbing, and the final item is for inspection.

Mr. ENGEL. Making $5,400?
Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; making a total of $5,400 for that item.
Mr. ENGEL. All right.

Colonel MARSHALL. The next item is for repair of enclosure wall and fence at Little Rock, Ark., $8,500.

Mr. ENGEL. This is the Little Rock, Ark., National Cemetery. Are there any questions on that?

Mr. NORRELL. I have checked over the Arkansas Cemetery estimate, and I think it is all right.

Mr. SCRIVNER. Is this the same cemetery where you were talking about moving the fence?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; that is right. This is for the repair of the wall still there.

Mr. SCRIVNER. So you are going to move part of it and repair the Test of it?

Colonel MARSHALL. Yes, sir; that is right.

Mr. NORRELL. I think the money is needed, and I personally know that that fence around the cemetery down there is broken down like you say it is. Incidentally, my grandfather is buried in that cemetery; he died in the War Between the States.

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