Senator TILLMAN. Mr. Chairman, my understanding has been that the long and short haul clause had reference to shipments by a given road, not over any general railroad system of the country. The CHAIRMAN. That was my understanding of it. Senator TILLMAN. I should think that the information which you are seeking to get, and which we all want, would be fuller if points with. out competitive water rates were named. For instance, Menominee is on the river leading into Lake Michigan. Mr. HIGBIE. It is right at the mouth of that river. Senator TILLMAN. So there is really entire water transportation if you choose to bring it through the lakes, down the Erie Canal, and into the Hudson to New York City. Do you not suppose that that accounts for the extremely low rate? Mr. HIGBIE. It is more than probable. Senator TILLMAN. Still there must be other points connected with New York by all-rail routes that have no advantage of that kind. Mr. HIGBIE. Yes; there is Memphis, Tenn. Senator TILLMAN. That also has an entire water route down the 94 RAILWAY FREIGHT RATES AND POOLING. Mississippi and by the Gulf and Atlantic to New York, but this ro is not used at all. Take some point that has no water connect with New York. Mr. HIGBIE. Indianapolis, Ind. Senator TILLMAN. Indianapolis and Elizabethton, I should supp are practically the same distance from New York. Mr. HIGBIE. Indianapolis is a trifle farther; it is 818 miles fr New York, and Elizabethton is 628 miles from New York. But E abethton, which has the shorter distance, has to pay a greater rate Senator TILLMAN. Such information is valuable. Mr. HIGBIE. I thank you for calling my attention to it, Senator The CHAIRMAN. I know that Menominee has a water route, bu would like Mr. Higbie to show what roads his land freights wo travel over. An additional column can be made to show that. Mr. HIGBIE. Oh, yes; it will take only very little trouble. to what the Senator has said about the long and short haul clause will say that I know it to be the fact that this movement of freis over the Norfolk and Western road from Cincinnati has to pass th same points in going to New York, and which points are compelled pay a much higher rate than what is known as the Cincinnati rate. Senator TILLMAN. That would come under the interpretation, as understand, of the long and short haul clause. My understanding that clause of the original act is that no given railroad should cha a greater rate to a place 300 miles from a competitive point than t place 500 miles from such a point. The CHAIRMAN. The statute states further that the freight m move in the same direction over the same road. Mr. Higbie, if y will add that column to your table, as suggested by me, it will be ve valuable to us. Mr. HIGBIE. I shall be glad to do so, and will mail it to you as so as I can get it prepared. Another thing that has changed the conditions since the time wh the present act was passed, is competition among the railroads the selves. At that time there was great competition, and that, in ma cases, regulated the rates charged and the rates made. But in t change of the method of doing business different systems have be consolidated into one system, and they have entered into what we c a community of interest plan, gentlemen, "agreements and other su arrangements." Senator TILLMAN. What is understood by the general term poolin Mr. HIGBIE. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. It has gone further, it is absolute ownership. Senator TILLMAN. Of course; but it is said that they have also co bined where ownership does not exist. The CHAIRMAN. They can not combine now. Senator TILLMAN. You mean they can not lawfully combine; b still some of us feel pretty thoroughly satisfied that they have co bined and are now combining. The CHAIRMAN. By actual purchase, but not in violation of t Sherman antitrust law. If so, they ought to be prosecuted. No Mr. Higbie, I will ask you this question: Have you observed in t last two years, since these consolidations have gone into effect, th the rates are perceptibly higher than they were before? Mr. HIGBIE. It has not been my experience in the lumber businessI know of no case where the lumber business has been affected in th way. I understand that some other kinds of business have been very largely affected by these consolidations, more particularly in the matter of classifications. The CHAIRMAN. Then I understand you to say that within the last two years, or since these consolidations, the rates on lumber have not perceptibly advanced? Mr. HIGBIE. They have not. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that the railroads in setting forth their side of the case in the public prints and otherwise, have rather sought to create the impression that the Interstate Commerce Commission was intended more particularly to represent the shippers, and not the railroads. My understanding is that the Interstate Commerce Commission was created for the express purpose of representing both sides of the question, so that when complaint is made, or when objection is made to an order of the Commission, each side shall have an equal chance to prove its side of the case before the Commission, just as they would in a court of law. The impression has been abroad that in case these additional powers are conferred upon the Commission the Commission will be dangerous, and many other adjectives are used which I will not specify. I can not understand that. They lose sight of the fact that somebody has to make these railroad rates. While we do not intend to ask that the Interstate Commerce Commission should be given the power to take initial action to make a rate that being left entirely to the railroads, as it always has been-we do feel that in view of the discriminations and secret rate cutting and unreasonable rates that some of the railroads have been charging, the power to regulate and to determine what is reasonable rate should be given to the Commission, and then it should have the power of seeing that that reasonable rate is put into effect. I think, gentlemen, I will not take any more of your time. Senator TILLMAN. Before the gentleman closes, I should like to ask him, if he is willing, or is authorized, to give us a list of the membership of his association? . Mr. HIGBIE. I will also mail that with the other statement. Senator TILLMAN. As I have said, we want to have as much light as possible upon the character, respectability, and wealth of the business interests involved in those who come here appealing for legislation. Mr. HIGBIE. I will be very glad, indeed, to mail that. Senator FOSTER. Is it your opinion that the decision of the Commission as to rates should go into operation and effect immediately, or should it be open to appeal to the courts before it becomes effective? Mr. HIGBIE. In reply to that question, Senator, it seems to me that the rate should go into effect within a reasonable time, say twenty or thirty days. I think the Nelson bill provides that. The trouble has been heretofore that when the decision of the Interstate Commerce Commission has been rendered, the matter has been allowed to take its course through the United States courts, thus consuming much time, until final determination has been had in the Supreme Court. Senator FOSTER. An instance of the law's delays. Mr. HIGBIE. Yes. Senator TILLMAN. It tends to prevent appeal to the courts. Mr. HIGBIE. And not only that, but it also tends to prevent lodgment of complaint with the Commission in the first instance. The expense of preparing the complaint and the conditions of delay are such that in a great many cases no action is taken at all. |