those who are skilled, clerical, technical, administrative, or supervisory. It seems to me you should be able to arrive at some estimate of them.

Governor RIDLEY. As I stated, we have 14,500 total, and on the pay roll we carry 3,500 as laborers. Of course, we would strike off the laborers at once. But that leaves us 11,000 others, in 70 different pay-roll classifications. We cannot tell whether those would be under the word "skilled," or "clerical," or what.

Senator RUSSELL. You can furnish this committee the 70 pay-roll classifications to which you refer?

Governor RIDLEY. Yes, sir.

Senator RUSSELL. Will you do that?
Governor RIDLEY. I will do that.

(For the information requested, see p. 50).

NUMBER OF SOLDIERS NOW IN CANAL ZONE

Senator THOMAS. General, how many soldiers are now stationed in the Canal Zone; somewhat less than 20,000? Governor RIDLEY. There are about 18,000.

NUMBER OF CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES ENGAGED IN MILITARY ACTIVITIES IN CANAL ZONE

Senator THOMAS. How many nonsoldier persons are connected with the soldier activities? In other words, I want to know the number of civilian laborers used in connection with purely soldier activities, who do not come under military jurisdiction.

Senator THOMAS. If you do not have the exact figures you might give us an estimate, if you are prepared to do so, Governor.

Governor RIDLEY. The only figures I have, Mr. Chairman, are that the silver employees on the Canal Zone, by all employment agencies, amounted on March 7 to 29,566. Of those the Panama Canal and the Panama Railroad employ 22,683. So that must leave around 6,800 who are employed by agencies other than the Panama Canal and the Panama Railroad. That includes the Navy, however. The only separate figure I have is 1,966 by the constructing quartermaster of the Army.

Senator THOMAS. What I want to get in the record, and in order to satisfy myself, is this. The Government is proposing to expand France Field. Would that labor be done under your jurisdiction, or under the War Department, or the Navy Department?

Governor RIDLEY. That would be done under the constructing quartermaster of the War Department.

Senator THOMAS. Would this section apply to those salaries as well? I do not think so, but I should like to get your interpretation.

Governor RIDLEY. If the constructing quartermaster should ask the Panama Canal to do some of this work, that might effect the situation.

Senator RUSSELL. The specific language of section 2 says "No part of any appropriation contained in this act." If the work was done by the constructing quartermaster under the regular supply bill for the War Department, those funds would not be appropriated in this act: they would be carried in the War Department appropriation bill.

QUESTION AS TO PROVISION INVOLVED BEING ADDED TO MILITARY APPROPRIATION BILL

Senator THOMAS. What I have in mind, Senator Russell, is that if this section remains in the bill it is obvious that it will be added to the Regular Military Establishment bill, so this is a precedent not only for this bill but for succeeding bills.

Senator RUSSELL. That might be, but you asked the question about this specific provision in this bill. I was not thinking about any specific precedent that might be fixed, but the language of this amendment refers specifically to the funds appropriated in this bill, and if it had been broader than that it would have been legislation, and subject to a point of order on the floor.

Senator HAYDEN. The Senator's proposition is that if it applies logically to the Panama Canal, then it would also be logical for the Constructing Quartermaster to follow this procedure.

Senator RUSSELL. It certainly ought not to be a limitation in this bill on the funds carried in other legislation.

Senator THOMAS. The same problem would come up when the regular appropriation bill comes up for consideration. For example, they have a vast amount of work tearing down mountains, and filling up the valleys preparing for housing work. They are doing a vast amount of work extending Allbrook Field. Also they are doing a great amount of work on the air field adjacent to Allbrook Field. Would that come under your jurisdiction, or that of the Navy, or the War Department?

Governor RIDLEY, The War Department.

Senator THOMAS. It is of importance, because we must consider the same matter in connection with other bills. Do you not think so? Governor RIDLEY. I should think it would have some application: to the forces that are now employed there, certainly.

CONSTRUCTION OF ROAD WITHIN CANAL ZONE то CONNECT WITH TRANS-ISTHMIAN HIGHWAY

Senator HAYDEN. There was a Budget estimate before this committee not long ago for the construction of a road within the Canal Zone, to connect with the trans-isthmian highway, with the proposal that the United States Government bear its share of it up to the boundary line. Would that work be done by the Panama Canal organization or by the Army?

Governor RIDLEY. It would be done by the Panama Canal.
Senator HAYDEN. Do you happen to remember the cost?
Governor RIDLEY. $325,000.

Senator HAYDEN. That was for about 4 miles of road.

REASON FOR HIGH COST OF PROPOSED ROAD

Governor RIDLEY. Less than that. About 32. But it is built through a swamp, so that all the swamp material has to be taken out and good material put in, or the road will not stay there-that is the large part of it. That makes it costly.

Senator HAYDEN. Is that a type of work where skilled Americans would be employed, or would you use native labor?

Governor RIDLEY. There would be skilled Americans directing it and supervising it. Largely native labor would be used.

Senator HAYDEN. How much muck do you have to take out to get a foundation for that road?

Governor RIDLEY. I think it is about 3 or 4 feet for quite a little way through that swamp.

Senator THOMAS. The exact length of that road is 17,150 feet, which is just a little more than 3 miles.

Senator ADAMS. General, in the discussion of that matter before the committee, I was somewhat surprised at the high unit cost of the various parts of that work estimated. You will do the major portion of it with the $55 labor you spoke of, I assume, the day labor? Governor RIDLEY. Yes.

Senator ADAMS. And yet you have unit costs which are apparently quite high. I mean the cost per yard, and so forth.

Senator TOWNSEND. It is necessary to remove 4 feet of earth and then restore it with gravel.

Senator ADAMS. Yes, but they are paying so much a yard for every yard that is taken out and every yard that is put back.

Senator TOWNSEND. But it is a good many yards.

Senator ADAMS. But the cost, as I recall, ran $1.50 a yard.
Governor RIDLEY. The excavation cost is 50 cents.

Senator ADAMS. Are you doing it with steam shovels?

Governor RIDLEY. Not with steam shovels for this muck probably, but the excavation in the higher portions is to be done by steam shovels. But the fill has to come from quite a distance also. The details are given in the hearings.

Senator ADAMS. Yes; they appear on page 42 of our hearings on the deficiency bill. You had the grading at $1.15 a cubic yard. You had the clearing, filling, and grading at $2 a cubic yard. You had the grubbing of the right-of-way at $2 an acre. Your excavation, you say, was 50 cents a yard, and your rock excavation was $2 a yard. And then you had the haul at $1 a yard.

Governor RIDLEY. Yes; of course, that all goes into that $1.15 at the top. That is what makes the average so high.

Senator THOMAS. Are there further questions to be submitted to Governor Ridley?

INCREASE IN POPULATION OF JAMAICANS

Senator AUSTIN. Have you some estimate of the rate of increase in population of those Jamaicans who have lived there, say, for 20 years? Governor RIDLEY. No; I have not, but when we complete our census this April I may have it.

Senator AUSTIN. Speaking generally, what is your observation? Do they increase rapidly?

Governor RIDLEY. Generally, I will say "Yes."

Senator THOMAS. General, who do you suggest to follow you? Senator RUSSELL. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask one more question. General, in furnishing the committee the 70 different classifications of employees

Senator THOMAS. I understand he has agreed to do that.

Senator RUSSELL. Yes. I also wanted to ask him to give us the number that are included within each of the 70 classifications. p. 50.)

(See

Senator THOMAS. May that information be furnished before these hearings are printed?

Governor RIDLEY. I think I can get that information before they are printed.

Senator TOWNSEND. I understood you had another matter you wanted to take up yourself.

Governor RIDLEY. If you want to keep all this together in the record perhaps you should now hear Mr. Finley from the State Department on the question of the effect on the treaty.

Senator THOMAS. Without objection, we will keep the items together, and have the matter thoroughly presented before we proceed to the matter of the construction of the locks and other matters. if you will call the next witness, Governor Ridley, please.

So

STATEMENT OF HAROLD D. FINLEY, ASSISTANT CHIEF, DIVISION OF AMERICAN REPUBLICS, STATE DEPARTMENT

EFFECT OF HOUSE AMENDMENT PERTAINING TO AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP
FOR EMPLOYEES ON TREATY COMMITMENT WITH PANAMA

Senator THOMAS. Mr. Finley, your name is Harold D. Finley?
Mr. FINLEY. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. What is your position?

Mr. FINLEY. Assistant chief, Division of American Republics, State Department.

Senator THOMAS. How long have you held that position?

Mr. FINLEY. Eight months; but I have been in the Foreign Service for 19 years.

Senator THOMAS. Have you been stationed at many places?

Mr. FINLEY. About eight or nine posts.

Senator THOMAS. How long have you been connected with the Panama Canal?

Mr. FINLEY. I served in the Legation at Panama for 2 years and I have been handling Panamanian affairs in the State Department for the past several months.

Senator THOMAS. You may proceed with your statement.

TEXT OF COMMITMENT UNITED STATES HAS WITH PANAMA RELATIVE TO EMPLOYMENT OF PANAMANIAN LABOR

(See p. 261)

Mr. FINLEY. Gentlemen, I should like to read into the record the commitment which the United States has with Panama with respect to the employment of Panamanian labor. This is a note signed by Mr. Hulland addressed on March 2, 1936, to the members of the Panamanian Treaty Commission. It says:

SIRS: With reference to the representations made by you during the negotiation of the treaty signed today, regarding Panamanian citizens employed by the Panama Canal or by the Panama Railroad Co., I have the honor to state that the Government of the United States of America, in recognition of the special relationship between the United States of America and the Republic of Panama with respect to the Panama Canal and the Panama Railroad Co., maintains and will maintain as its public policy the principle of equality of opportunity and treatment set down in the order of December 23, 1908, of the Secretary of War, and in the Executive order of February 2, 1914, and February 20, 1920, and will favor the maintenance, enforcement, or enactment of such provisions, consistent with the efficient operation and maintenance of the Canal and its auxiliary works and their

effective protection and sanitation, as will assure to Panamanian citizens employed by the Canal or the railroad equality of treatment with employees who are citizens of the United States of America.

With the permission of the committee, I should like to make a very brief statement off the record.

Senator THOMAS. You may proceed. (Discussion off the record.)

STATEMENT OF GOV. C. S. RIDLEY-Resumed

NATIVE LABOR INCLUDES BOTH JAMAICANS AND CITIZENS OF PANAMA

Senator RUSSELL. You refer to native labor, Governor Ridley. Does that include Jamaicans as well as the citizens of Panama? Governor RIDLEY. It includes both.

Senator RUSSELL. What proportion of these laborers do you estimate are Jamaicans, or of other than Panamanian citizenship?

Governor RIDLEY. For the present force we have no accurate figures, no means of knowing accurately. I can only tell you that before we began this special work we are doing we had our regular force, what we call the regular force, and we determined that about 25 percent of that force of 10,000 were Panamanians at that time. Now we are doing some very

Senator RUSSELL. Just a moment. The other three-fourths were what?

Governor RIDLEY. The other three-fourths were other nationalities, mostly natives of the West Indies and their decedents.

QUESTION AS TO JAMAICANS REMAINING BRITISH SUBJECTS

Senator LODGE. The Jamaicans in Panama do not ever take the trouble to become naturalized, do they? They remain British subjects right along, do they not?

Governor RIDLEY. The sons of the men who came there originally to build the Canal, as I understand, may become citizens of Panama by applying for citizenship.

Senator LODGE. But they do not become American citizens, do they?

Governor RIDLEY. No, sir. So there are three categories. There are those who are already Panamanian citizens; there are those who have a right to become Panamanian citizens by applying; and there are those who were born in the West Indies.

Senator RUSSELL. Most of those born in the West Indies are very proud of their British citizenship, are they not? Governor RIDLEY. I do not know.

PERCENTAGE OF NEW APPLICATIONS BEING RECEIVED FROM PANAMANIANS AND INDIVIDUALS OF OTHER NATIONALITIES

Senator RUSSELL. To complete the record I should like to ask you this question: What has been your recent experience in employing labor to carry on the new work that is being undertaken and has been proposed, with reference to whether or not they are Panamanian citizens, or whether they are of other nationalities?