Now the position that you have stated, sir, goes to the point that you are against segregation. If there is no other point, we will take your testimony as you have given it and will put in the testimony of the president of your association.

If there is some other point you want to make, you may do so.

Dr. DEAN. I would like to make this one point before I close, and that is this: The 483 students at Meharry, if the school were closed, would not all be without an education, because there are State schools in the South in four States that could admit those students.

Dr. ROLFE. In the last year, Meharry was the only accredited dental school in the South.

Dr. DEAN. But those same schools are turning out graduates.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Taggart's statement will be printed in the record.

(The statement of Dr. Taggart is as follows:)

TESTIMONY OF DR. E. W. TAGGART, BIRMINGHAM, ALA., PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL DENTAL ASSOCIATION, BEFORE THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ON RESOLUTION 191, ON THE QUESTION OF REGIONAL EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE SOUTH Honorable Senator Alexander Wiley, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee of the Congress of the United States, and members, on behalf of the National Dental Association, I speak in opposition to Senate Resolution No. 191, which proposes enabling legislation by the Congress of the United States to provide so-called regional education in the South advocated through Southern Governors' Conference.

BACKGROUND

The idea of regionalized universities had its possible conception in the desire to circumvent the United States Supreme Court decision in the case of Gaines v. the State of Missouri in the late 1930's and more recently the United States Supreme Court decision in the case of Mrs. Ada Lois Sipuel Fisher v. the State of Oklahoma, which decisions have accelerated the action of the Southern governors through their conference in attempting to avoid implementing those decisions.

VALID ARGUMENT

We submit the proposition that the South is not financially able to meet her educational needs. However, the establishment of a system of regionalized institutions is not a sound approach to the problem, because a State that is too poor to provide equal dual education could not better itself by adding a dual regionalized system of schools. Experience in the South has already established the fact beyond a doubt that her present system of dual education is impracticable, expensive, wasteful, and inadequate. How, then, will a so-called dual regionalized system of education meet the problem?

We submit further, therefore, that the only practical, economical, and adequate solution of the problem is the admission of all the people to the present school facilities in the South and throughout the Nation. In our humble judgment and opinion, the solution of the problem lies in further development of our present educational plant and the creation of the needed educational facilities for all the people in the South and throughout the Nation.

DOUBTFUL SOLUTION

If the Congress of the United States should pass the proposed enabling act, the validity of its constitutionality is widely questioned throughout the South even. Ex-Representative Joe Starnes, of Guntersville, Ala., doubts the constitutionality of such a law; former Lt. Gov. Handy Ellis, of Alabama, advised the State of Alabama to "go slow" about spending money to develop regional institutions and said: "The program is not going to settle things. It will just delay things a few years." Further, Mr. Ellis expressed doubt that the Supreme Court would approve it anyway if a test is made. "The Court has held that Negroes are entitled to educational facilities equal to those provided for white students."

State Superintendent of Education A. R. Meadows, of Alabama, seems in a doubtful position of both the constitutionality of such legislation and the likelihood of such a plan meeting the educational needs in the South. Dean Krake, of the Medical College of Alabama, in the process of being built in Birmingham, spoke of the impracticability of the regional idea in the light of the fact that before the medical school can be completed it is swamped with applications from the State of Alabama alone. Further, it is our understanding that only a few of the Southern States are in agreement on the so-called regionalized plan of education, and it is doubtful that there will ever be universal unanimity of feeling on the plan, thus making it doubtful by default, in the event of its passage. Negro leadership, where it is free to express an opinion is universally and unalterably opposed to the proposed "regionalized plan of education" because it makes a backward step and negates all they have hoped and prayed and worked for through the years. Further, it means the sublimation of "Jim-Crowism," the separate but equal myth of separation or segregation, and fixes permanently the badge of second-class citizenship upon a whole people. God forbid!

PLAN NOT PROGRESSIVE

Community colleges and professional centers seem to be more in keeping with the idea of progress in meeting the need of higher and professional education. The President's Committee on Higher Education did not see fit to recommend regional universities or the answer to the problem of higher education in the Nation. Those educators and high-minded persons who made up the President's committee understood too well the "principle of proximity" of schools to people to run the risk of locating them too far away.

ASSORTED OBJECTIONS

The Southern Governors' Conference seems intent on getting Meharry Medical College as a criterion of all the South's medical needs. They have announced no plans to go any further, yet the freshmen facilities at Meharry in the school of medicine will accommodate only 60 students, giving a total capacity for the school of medicine of 240. The freshmen class of the dental school at Meharry has facilities for 35 students, and only 140 students can be accommodated in the dental college. The school of nursing has facilities for only 25 students, giving a total capacity for the training of nurses of only 75. There is no school of pharmacy connected therewith. There are in the United States today only about 1,600 dentists of Afro-American extraction, with a current need of a minimum of 7,000. There are 4,000 physicians of Afro-American origin in the United States currently, with a minimum need of 15,000 today. There is no end, apparently, to the need of nurses in the Nation.

It is my information that at Meharry for the freshman dental class of 1947-48, there were 450 applications made for 35 places. At Howard University, of this city, 650 applications were made for 50 places in the freshman dental class. According to Dr. Horner, president of the Dental Council on Education, the forty-odd dental colleges in the United States had over 18,000 applications for entrance to the freshman dental classes for the term of 1947-48. He stated further that after duplications, triplications, and any other errors were eliminated there remained over 12,000 individual applicants for only 3,500 places in those 40 dental colleges. This means, gentlemen, a lost generation as relates to the field of dentistry alone; and when you take into consideration similar conditions in other fields of education such as medicine, nursing, pharmacy, etc., on a Nation-wide basis, the loss in human resources is staggering.

The implications of the United States Supreme Court's decisions in both the Gaines and Fisher cases are quite explicit in their order that educational opportunities and facilities be provided for the people now and within the States in which they reside.

Should southern traditions be allowed to stand in the way of the progress of a whole people, thereby flaunting their constitutional rights and creating a blight on the whole Nation? In the face of the fact that the greatest asset of any nation lies in its human resources, which resources can best be utilized through education, therefore, our course seems to be clear, gentlemen. We have no honest alternative.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. W. Montague Cobb?

Dr. J. G. Gathings, of Howard University, Washington, D. C.

STATEMENT OF DR. J. G. GATHINGS, CHAIRMAN, BOARD OF TRUSTEES, NATIONAL MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Dr. GATHINGS. Mr. Chairman, I am the chairman of the board of trustees of the National Medical Association, an organization of about 4,000 members. We include medicine, dentistry, and pharmacy.

We passed a resolution in New York City about 3 weeks ago condemning the sanction of the southern governors to the taking over of Meharry Medical College, as put forth in the compact.

We were told that the Alumni Association of Meharry Medical College is in favor of the proposition. On our board we five Meharry men who voted not in favor of it.

I would like to quote the secretary of the board of trustees of the National Medical Association. He is a graduate of Meharry, and he has a son who is a graduate of Meharry. He made a ringing speech saying that

if Meharry has to be controlled by a group of hand-picked political henchmen from the South, then, damn it, let it close.

We feel that it is unfair for the southern governors to make a proposal for taking over Meharry Medical College, as set forth in the compact, without consulting organized Negro medicine, or any type of medicine, for that matter.

We try to keep in touch with the American Association of Medical Colleges, and of course we do attempt to keep in touch with the American Medical Association, which in the South does not admit Negroes to their constituent societies. But we know of no appeal to those bodies, and I am positive there has been no direct appeal, either through the trustees of Meharry or the southern governors, through organized medicine.

I think it is due that courtesy and respect, in that in the training of Negro students, who are to become a part of the over-all picture, certainly we should have some say.

Meharry Medical College, in which I spent my freshman year, but graduated from Howard University, has been, we know, in trouble financially for a long time. We know of the moneys that were taken out of the alumni fund to try to perpetuate Meharry. But we do feel that if Meharry needs help so badly, and is about to close, why would the southern governors immediately rush to their aid, without consulting and giving organized people a chance to study the over-all proposition?"

I have been told officially that the National Bar Association was not consulted. That, of course, boils down to the original compact of graduate schools; that the National Dental Association was not consulted. And we think it is a gross injustice for the Congress of the United States to sanction anything of this type without first letting it be decided by the people whom it is to serve most. That is the end of my statement, and a summary of what we have for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the basis of these conclusions?

Dr. GATHING. The basis? It is certainly prejudiced and unfair to not consult organized medicine before attempting, if you will excuse the colloquial expression, to ram the compact down the throats of the Negro doctors.

Meharry men were on the faculty. We have more than 4,000 members. And I would dare say that more than half of them are Meharry graduates. And, of course, the board of trustees made the resolution not to accept the compact of the southern governors. And certainly that gives voice that all of the alumni are not in favor of it.

We know of three instances. I was told that was refuted yesterday. We are talking about Meharry graduates. We were told that the California group did not sanction it; that a certain group in Texas did not sanction it, and that a Chicago group did not sanction it. And we know personally, in our official capacity, as chairman of the board of trustees of the National Medical Association, that there are many outstanding graduates of Meharry Medical College who say that they would rather see it die than to become a political guinea pig for, quoting again, "southern demagogs."

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Rolfe, am I correct in my recollection of the testimony yesterday by the president and yourself, that the proposition to take over Meharry did not come from the governors, but rather came from your institution?

Dr. ROLFE. Yes. Our board of trustees offered the institution to the region to be tax-supported, because that was the last resort to keep the institution open. And we felt that the institution is doing a fine work, and it is doing a necessary work, and that it must go on to provide opportunity for our youth, for our people, for medical care, until such an ideal time comes as it is no longer needed.

I want to correct Dr. Gathings, an old friend of mine, on one statement of fact. When the financial crisis arose last summer, our alumni were canvassed by air mail, special delivery, to see whether or not any or all of the $200,000 that we had collected specifically toward a building fund could be offered to the school to keep it open at least this year.

We mailed the things out on Tuesday and Thursday. We had authorizations for the loan of over $100,000. But in the meantime the president and the board of trustees were taking all steps they could to find money, and they found the money, and we did not give that money or lend it to the school. That is one correction I should like to make.

The CHAIRMAN. The point I wanted to clear up: You suggested that this would be a guinea pig, and that it might have come out from the Council of Governors. But your statement, Dr. Rolfe, is definite and certain that the governors did not approach you or have anything to do with the proposition; but that your institution, under the direction of your trustees, approached them. Is that correct?

Dr. ROLFE. That is true. We had to sell them on the proposition. And it was not an easy job. It took 2 years, or more than that, 22 years, of travel and consultation, before the matter came to the State in which it is, where they came to consider it favorably.

The CHAIRMAN. Who did the "selling"?

Dr. ROLFE. Dr. Clawson.

The CHAIRMAN. You assisted?

Dr. ROLFE. No; I did not. I did not go to the governors at all. The CHAIRMAN. What about the trustees? Who are they? Are they men who are prejudiced against the Negro?

Dr. ROLFE. I don't think so. We have 6 of them who are Negroes, and we have 15 others who are men of national repute, including people

STATEMENT OF DR. J. G. GATHINGS, CHAIRMAN, BOARD OF TRUSTEES, NATIONAL MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Dr. GATHINGS. Mr. Chairman, I am the chairman of the board of trustees of the National Medical Association, an organization of about 4,000 members. We include medicine, dentistry, and pharmacy.

We passed a resolution in New York City about 3 weeks ago condemning the sanction of the southern governors to the taking over of Meharry Medical College, as put forth in the compact.

We were told that the Alumni Association of Meharry Medical College is in favor of the proposition. On our board we five Meharry men who voted not in favor of it.

I would like to quote the secretary of the board of trustees of the National Medical Association. He is a graduate of Meharry, and he has a son who is a graduate of Meharry. He made a ringing speech saying that

if Meharry has to be controlled by a group of hand-picked political henchmen from the South, then, damn it, let it close.

We feel that it is unfair for the southern governors to make a proposal for taking over Meharry Medical College, as set forth in the compact, without consulting organized Negro medicine, or any type of medicine, for that matter.

We try to keep in touch with the American Association of Medical Colleges, and of course we do attempt to keep in touch with the American Medical Association, which in the South does not admit Negroes to their constituent societies. But we know of no appeal to those bodies, and I am positive there has been no direct appeal, either through the trustees of Meharry or the southern governors, through organized medicine.

I think it is due that courtesy and respect, in that in the training of Negro students, who are to become a part of the over-all picture, cer-tainly we should have some say.

Meharry Medical College, in which I spent my freshman year, but graduated from Howard University, has been, we know, in trouble financially for a long time. We know of the moneys that were taken out of the alumni fund to try to perpetuate Meharry. But we do feel that if Meharry needs help so badly, and is about to close, why would the southern governors immediately rush to their aid, without consulting and giving organized people a chance to study the over-all proposition?

I have been told officially that the National Bar Association was not consulted. That, of course, boils down to the original compact of graduate schools; that the National Dental Association was not consulted. And we think it is a gross injustice for the Congress of the United States to sanction anything of this type without first letting it be decided by the people whom it is to serve most. That is the end of my statement, and a summary of what we have for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the basis of these conclusions?

Dr. GATHING. The basis? It is certainly prejudiced and unfair to not consult organized medicine before attempting, if you will excuse the colloquial expression, to ram the compact down the throats of the Negro doctors.