ed, in the canvass, as a matter to which they were opposed.

who have stood with me. I hope the proposition will be defeated, and the section stricken out. It will be a bad commentary upon our institutions, if, after the experience of forty-eight years, it should appear that we have progressed so far that we cannot trust the people. This would be a kind of progression which I do not understand very well. A kind of Democracy is urged upon this floor, with such zeal, and such protestations of love for the dear people with some gentlemen that one would suppose their bowels were ready to gush out; and when any thing is urged here which seems to them to be unfavorable to the intelligence or action of the people, some of the gentlemen over the way, seem astounded, and shrink from such imputation, like a mad dog would at the sight of a river. But now the same men would impose a check on the representatives chosen by this same people. Call you this popular liberty?

I have but one suggestion to present, and that is, if we desire to do anything really to amend the Constitution, we had better confine ourselves and our operations within such limits and upon such propositions as will certainly be productive of public advantage, and not load down the Constitution with matter which is sure to be objectionable to the people of Ohio.

Mr. BROWN, of Carroll. I also, with my friend on the left, [Mr. GILLET,] am a member of the committee on the Executive Department, and like him and the member from Champaign, [Mr. VANCE,] I did not concur with the majority in making this report, and so we withheld our names from it, mainly on account of the section now under consideration. I do not know that it is proper for me to take up the time of the committee, but it seems strange to me, that men upon this floor, who, day after day, talk about the dear people, and seem to love the people so, that they could almost fall down and worship them-declaring that all power should be with the people, and no where else-it seems to me strange that these men should be afraid now to trust the people acting by their representatives, and desire to set up a power to protect the people against themselves: that they should in effect, tell the people in the several districts of Ohio, who are called upon to elect representatives to go and pass laws for them, that they will not be able to do their work well without the intervention of a man called the Governor, penned up here at the Capitol, and surrounded by the wealth and fashion of this magnificent city, because, perchance, he knows better the will of the peo Mr. MITCHELL. I have seen, since this Convenple than the representatives who have come right out tion begun, that there was a due proportion of the old from amongst them, not ten days from the passage of political leaven still left upon the other side of the the bill. This may be some sort of Democracy, but I Chamber; but I have not before seen it so plainly at imagine it would not do to tell much of this two-thirds work as upon this question and upon this occasion. I veto to the multitudes across the Atlantic who have can very readily apprehend the cause why a man who been for so long a time shedding their blood, for the has lived as long in the world as the gentleman from Carsake of wresting this prerogative from their oppressors roll, and all those gentlemen upon the other side, should and bringing it back to the people: but on this side of be so zealous in their opposition to the veto--why they the Atlantic we find men talking about taking this pow. should have so great an objection to any provision er away from the people and placing it in the hands of which takes hold of, and proposes to reverse the doings the Governor, and I suppose they would place him, as of our revolutionary forefathers-which proposes to rea kind of school master, over the representatives of pudiate their well matured sentiments. I would comthe people, to tell them "You have'nt got your lesson mend to these gentlemen the saying of a distinguished right and you must go back." And it might so hap- man of the Pennsylvania delegation with reference to pen that the Governor would receive a bill for approval the adoption of this provision in the constitution of the U. within five days of the close of the session, and find-States. "We desire," said he, "an efficient executive, ing the representatives determined to adjourn, he might just put it in his pocket, and there would be an end of it. A gentleman over the way, has taken occasion to say that the exercise of the veto power has done great good to the country. This is not the proper place to discuss that proposition. But there are other gentlemen on this floor entertaining a different opinion, and who have a right, at least, to think differently from that gen

tleman.

There are very few important bills which can pass by a very large maiority. I think we have got a sufficient safe-guard against hasty legislation in the section adopted in the report of the committee on the Legislative Department, which requires the yeas and nays on the final passage of every bill, and the yeas of a majority of all the votes to which each house is entitled in order to pass a bill. Now, if gentlemen want a greater check than this upon hasty legislation, let them vote for a monarchy at once.

for the simple purpose of preventing hasty legislation, illy matured and inconsiderate; so that the liberties of the people may not be taken from them without due consideration." Unfortunately, the opposite doctrine has spread very rapidly in this State, so that now it is trumpeted forth from every stump in every political campaign from one end of the State to the other. I cannot see why men distinguished for their historical knowledge, who cannot but know the connection which this subject has always had with the existence of free governments, should dare risk their reputation in characterizing this subject as they have. These gentlemen cannot but know that this power has ever been used as the simple means of preserving to the people the liberties which they enjoy. No sensible reason can be assigned for their course, except that President Jackson, the great hero and patriot of the Hermitage, arrested, by the interposition of his veto, that infamous internal improvement system, as it The constitution would provide an Attorney General was called. I refer to his veto against the Maysville for the State to be elected by the people. That officer road bill, in 1831. Then it was that for the first time is the constitutional advisor of the Legislature, and they we heard the using of this infamous howl, and it has have, undoubtedly, the power to call on him for his been echoed ever since, sometimes louder and someopinion upon any question of difficulty, as they have times more faintly. But I confess that since I heard done frequently heretofore, and this was another safe- that howl for the first time, I have never heard it in guard against hasty legislation. So that at last it re- so weak a voice as that in which it has been put forth solved itself into a mere question of expediency wheth- in this convention. However, the voice is not dead er we should fix, in the organic law, a check upon the yet. But the indications are, that the wrath which has representatives of the people, against the enactment of now been stirred will not stop. It is not yet forgotten such laws as the people themselves want. I have how that great man dared to step forth and arrest the thought it was proper to say this much, because it is progress of an insidious system, designed to crush the due to myself and other members of the committee' prosperity of the country and consolidate the govern

ment-how he stepped forth and arrested the act rechartering the Bank of the United States, in 1832.These are the causes why gentleman are opposed to the veto power-these are the reasons why they make such long, loud, disgusting and demagogical speeches against it-speeches preposterous and disgraceful to their authors, which would come up in judgment against them in after times and stamp them as demagogues. I know, sir, that some people have for a time labored under this delusion, supposing their liberty to consist in the power to pass laws-that if you take away the law, you take away their liberty. Is it true that liberty resides with the government and proceeds from it, or is it true that in our government all liberty is possessed positively and absolutely by the masses, and can be obtained only, or taken away rightfully, by their free consent and will; that is the great question. I know of no man who dare stand up here and say the latter is not true. The people indebted for their liberty to their agents in the Legislature! No one is bold enough openly to avow this. Yet I cannot mistake the sigus which I see here; there are men who have the shadowings of these views cast over their minds, and those are the men who talk against the veto as taking away the liberty of the people, thus giving the best evidence that this is the view of human rights controlling the silent operations of their minds.

the gentleman from Franklin, [Mr. STANBERY,] the boldest man on this floor, yes sir, in Ohio, I am proud to say, to his credit I speak it, will not I presume now stand up and say, that the Maysville road Bill, a part of that internal improvement system, was altogether a just and commendable measure for the encouragement and support of the American people. I have not heard for the last five years a single, man amongst those early denouncers of that veto who would openly adhere to their old course. Will any gentleman in this Convention stand up and say that the United States Bank should now be set up and sustained by the American people? Or that we should return to the old exploded internal improvement system.

Mr. BROWN of Carrol, (interrupting) will the gentleman himself stand up and oppose the pet banksthe petty state bank system,--proposed by Gen. Jackson, instead of the United States Bank?

Mr. MITCHELL. The gentleman is mistaken. Gen, Jackson never proposed any State bank system. It is not in the record. The gentleman can't show a line of it. But I can show that Gen. Jackson is subject to no such charge from the beginning to the end of his career. I can show that the entire policy of Jackson and all his teachings were in irreconcileable hostility to the iufamous and unrighteous scheme of robbery and wrong, and that it met his most hearty and unThe arresting of a law by the Executive veto is sim-compromising hatred.. So far as I know, his conduct has ply leaving the people in possession of the liberty they had before, till they can be consulted as to whether they will have a law passed by which that liberty shall

be curtailed.

Now, if gentlemen on the other side could but rid themselves of these debasing prejudices, acquired by some of their connection with the strange doctrine taught in the political campaigns of 1832 and 1848, they could see no very territic matter in a proposition to give the Governor a veto. It was simply a power securing the people against the effects of what the Governor might suppose to be hasty legislation-a thing which some gentlemen seem to suppose can never take place, and that no unwise man can hold a seat in the Legislature hereafter.

been that of an honest-hearted, clear-headed and patriotic man, and I believe that the people of America have come to the same conclusion, that all the acts of Jackson met with their most hearty and generous and cordial approval. If gentlemen deny this, let them take up and try their old issues-those issues which we have been trying to bring them too, for so many years and have not been able to succeed. Now the gentleman from Carrol is a young man; and I venture to predict that he will not live to see the time when his party will wake up again the issues of 1832 and 1836.

Mr. BROWN of Carrol. If the democracy have determined that we shall have no more of the United States Bank, the old democracy have also determined that we shall have no more vetoes. I do not make an issue against that.

Mr. MITCHELL. The democracy have had disgraceful traitors in their ranks, who have always been afraid of their true issues, but from the time that the gov ernment was formed, we have always had a noble band of democrats, who have stood forth in defence of the doctrines of Jefferson and the great Statesman of the Hermitage. Yes sir, and in 1840, when our opponents combined their coon-skin and hard cider influences, they found they could not elect a President without taking up some old friend of Gen. Jackson to go along with him on their ticket-John Tyler, of Virginia,

I fear that those who are opposed to the two-thirds veto, and have declared themselves willing to compro mise upon a qualified veto, have had their minds too much warped by stump speeches. I am afraid their sympathies are too much with the wrong family. I am sure, sir, that these influences have not had the same effect upon the honest hearts and brave minds of the unterrified democracy of the country; these influences have not yet been sufficient to alarm them.They have too much sense, sir, to be affected in this way. There is not a single man in the part of the country to which I belong, whose nerves have ever been disturbed by their cry. It has always been the Mr. BLICKENSDERFER observed that, long ago, prominent mission and unceasing effort of the demo- some one told him that it was very bad for the health cratic party to preserve the Constitution as it is, and to to be out walking on a foggy morning with an "empresist every attack upon it, lei it come in what guise it ty stomach" and he conceived that such speeches as may; and for doing so, they have been maligned by they had just eben listening to, were about as hard up. every term of infamy and reproach which could be on an empty stomach as a fog in the morning [laughdrawn from the most copious vocabulary of their en-ter] He would therefore, move that the committee raged opponents. Every man of the party who has a heart worthy of its great cause has ever stood firm in favor of this veto. I know that those whom I represent are in favor of it. They are not disturbed by this senseless and unreasonable howl which has been raised against it. They have always understood the source from which that howl proceeded, and the cause of it; and instead of disturbing their minds, it has only drawn their affections closer around this bulwark of their liberty. They find that the boldest denouncers of these important vetoes of the sage of the Hermitage, will not now stand up and repeat their denunciations. Even

rise.

The motion was withdrawn at the request of Mr. HITCHCOCK of Geauga, who said he desired to return his hearty thanks to the gentleman from Knox [Mr. MITCHELL] for his interesting lecture. He hoped all would unite with him in returning thanks to the gentleman for the able effort he had made; and he rejoiced that there was one man in this Convention who could speak of our quarrels, and our conduct, and instruct us in what we ought to do. He rejoiced that we had such a man as this among us and he hoped the gentleman would improve the opportunity, whenever

it recurred, to lecture this body on matters not exactly connected with the subjects before it (laughter.) The gentleman referred to the "leaven on this side of the house"-in his opinion there was no necessity for any "leaven" in certain seats on the opposite side of the chamber, for the gentleman was "high" enough already he was a great man, (renewed laughter.)

Mr. MITCHELL thanked the gentleman for the high encomium he had passed on him and hoped that he was sincere in making it-(a laugh.)

The question being on striking out the 16th section, was put and the committee divided, and stood affirmative-46-negative 34.

So the section was stricken out.

Mr. GREGG. Mr. Chairman, I object to putting the salaries of public officers in the fundamental law of the land-because if put in, it will be for the purpose of raising the salaries of Governor, Judges, &c., where they may be placed beyond the reach of the people. Take, sir, the present proposition, a proposition to almost double the salary of the Governor

On motion the committee rose, reported progress and a like principle will no doubt be adopted or reportand asked and obtained leave to sit again.

On motion by Mr. LIDEY
The Convention adjourned.

TWENTY SIXTH DAY-THURSDAY, June 6th,
Prayer by Rev. Mr. Woodrow.

Mr. FIRESTONE presented the petition of James Paxton and eighty-two other citizens of Ashland county, praying that the New Constitution be so amended as to give equal political privileges to all male inhabitants of this State without regard to color.

Upon motion the petition was referred to the Com

mittee on the Elective Franchise.

The same gentleman presented another petition from William B. Young and fifty-seven other citizens of Ashland county, praying that a clause be inserted in the new Constitution prohibiting the Legislature from passing charters for Banking Institutions.

Upon motion the same was referred to the Committee on Banks and the Currency.

Mr. STILLWELL presented a petition from Thomas Maxfield, and one hundred and three other citizens of Muskingum county, asking that a provision be inserted the new Constitution (to be submitted to the vote of the people,) prohibiting the Legislature from the passage of any law legalizing the traffic in ardent spirits.

Upon motion the petition was referred to the committee on Jurisprudence.

The same gentleman presented another petition from John S. Sharkle and twenty-nine others, upon the same subject, which was referred to the same committee.

Mr. GILLETT presented a memorial from Benjamin Brush and sixteen other citizens of the county of Sciota, asking that a provision be inserted in the new Constitution, prohibiting the Legislature from the passage any law legalizing the traffic in ardent spirits.

of

Upon motion it was referred to the committee on Jurisprudence.

Mr. MASON gave notice that on the next day or some subsequent day he would ask leave to introduce a resolution to amend the first standing rule of the

Convention.

ed, in favor of the Judges of the Supreme Court and of the courts of common pleas, State officers, &c.-and thus, sir, in one scale, you will put the good sound principles of the constitution, while in the other you will hang a dead drag in the shape of double salaries. I am, therefore, in favor of striking cut all salaries from the constitution, and leave them as at present, to be regulated by law. I wish the constitution which may be formed by this Convention, to go to the people entirely upon its own merits and freed from the drag of salaries. Let the people judge of the principles of the constitution, and not be troubled about a question of

dollars and cents in making a decision. And, sir, how does your rule operate. In section nine, of the Legislative Report which has received the sanction of this Convention, you have put up the mechanic to the lowest bidder,-you let the printer and his work out on contract, in the unalterable law of the land-and in the saine constitution-in the same unalterable law-you wish to put a double salary for the Governor of the

State! Yes, sir, the mechanic is to be sold out to the lowest bidder-he is to be "chained down" in the Constitution of your State, and your Governor and other high officials appointed to feed upon his vitals, and revel at his expense upon double pay and high salaries! Sir, I am opposed to this proposition, and wish the Governor and the Mechanic to stand upon the same platform, and be subject to the regulation of the law, and the Legislature of the State. I am aware that demagogues have kept our Legislature, two or three days, in session, at an expense of seven or eight hundred dollars, debating a question whether they should expend $1,87% in printing-but even this abuse does not demand a constitutional enactment. Leave it to the law, where it can be changed at pleasure-and let us trust, also, that that particular class of demagogues who have heretofore spent so much time in debating a question of printing, will soon die out, and close their eyes in political death!

I say again, sir, I am opposed to the increase of ealaries, and opposed to chaining or attempting to chain the people down in this constitution-for let me warn the members, that an attempt of this kind will meet with a signal failure,-for the people will hurl back your Constitution, and refuse the shackles which you Resolved. That a committee of five be appointed, to whom wish to place upon them. Yes, sir, they will refuse to shall be referred the subject of the retail of ardent spirits, be bound down in your fundamental law, and reject

Mr. McCORMICK offered the following which was agreed to.

and all matters connected there with.

The PRESIDENT announced Messrs. MCCORMICK, HAWKINS, ANDREWS, SMITH of Highland and HENDERSON, the committee, agreeable to the above resolution. Upon motion of Mr. RIDDLE, the Convention then resolved itself into a committee of the whole, (Mr. CUTLER in the chair) and resumed the consideration of the report number one, on

THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT.

Section 17, providing for the election of Lieutenant Governor was passed over.

SEC. 18. "The Governor shall receive for his compensation twenty-five hundred dollars per annum."

the chains which you offer them. I say again, I am opposed to this kind of work-1st. Because, we have never had difficulty in securing competent persons to fill official stations-and until that takes place, I am unwilling to offer premiums in the fundamental law of the land. The real difficulty has always been, that too many offer their claims to the public for official station. 2d. Because all questions of salary should be left to the law-it is impossible to fix all salaries in the constitution, and it would be unjust to give the "high official" this great privilege, to the exclusion of all other officers, who may be equally meritorious, although

not so large in name. 3d. Because of the reasons as-nal-to vote for directors on the State's interest in turnsigned, that you wish to place it in the constitution, to keep it out of the reach of the people. 4th. Be cause you wish to chain down the Mechanic to the "lowest bid" for his work-and fasten him down too, in the unchangeable law-while at the same time you cannot reach a point too high for the public officer. I therefore wish the section struck out of the Report of the Committee on the Executive Department, and leave the whole question of fixing salaries to the General Assembly, where it can be regulated to suit the

circumstances of the case.

Mr. GREGG moved that the whole section be stricken out.

pike road and slackwater navigation companies, and appoint notaries public. All told, this is the sum of the Governor's duties. Many of these duties could better be done by some one else. For these duties he now receives a salary of twelve hundred dollars, and the report of the committee is to raise it to twenty-five hundred dollars. He [Mr. C.] was willing and desirous the Governor should have a fair, reasonable salary, but there was no propriety in giving so large a salary for so little service. It was not in proportion with other things. If it is reasonable to give the Governor a salary of twenty-five hundred dollars a year for such trifling services, it would be right and proper to pay to a Judge of the Supreme Court or the Judge of the Su

Mr. CLARK said it was urged that the Governor's salary had better be left open to be fixed by the Legis-perior Court at Cleveland, twenty-five thousand dollars lature. He thought differently. He believed the salary of all officers ought to fixed by the constitution so far as was possible-it saved the expense of having it done by the Legislature.

a year. There is that difference in the two cases between the actual labor and service rendered In truth the village constable does more labor in his office than does the Governor in his. The village justice of the peace, whose fees amount to one hundred dollars a year, performs double the official labor of the Govern

and it is proposed to raise it to twenty-five hundred dollars a year. For his part, while he had proposed fifteen hundred dollars as the highest point, he should prefer twelve hundred, the present salary, and believed it was sufficient.

It was urged by the gentleman from Columbiana [MI. GREGG,] that all salaries and the price for the public printing should be left to be fixed by the Legis-or, who now receives twelve hundred dollars a year; lature. He did not agree with him. When the subject of the public printing shall again come up for final action, he should vote for and support the proposition in the report of the Legislative committee to give it out on contract to the lowest responsible bidder who would do the work well. That was the correct principle to be adopted. He would not discuss that question now -he could not see what the public printing had to do with the salary that should be paid to the Governor.

The officer of Governor in this State is but nominal. His duties are few and well defined, and there was no difficulty and could be no objections to fixing upon the amount he should have for his services. It had got to be done some time and by some body, and he thought this was the time and place to do it. To show that the office of Governor was but nominal and but little to do, he would refer to the duties of the office. The law requires him to sign the commissions of officers, such as the justices of the peace, prosecuting attornies, &c. This required but little labor, and might be dispensed with, by changing the law, as such commissions are useless. He is to fill vacancies in certain offices until the Legislature meet. He is to call special elections to occasion to do either, as vacancies rarely occured, and never by resignation. Experience shows that an officer will generally hang on to an office as long as he

fill vacancies in certain other cases. He seldom had

could.

Was it true that the present salary of twelve hundred dollars had not been sufficient to secure the best talent in the State? He thought not. The present incumbent, Governor Ford, he believed had discharged the duties of the office ably and faithfully. He had never heard but one complaint against him; that was that he spent some of his time attending to his farming business, and in making cheese! As for himself he was fond of cheese, and was very glad to hear that the Governor was not above attending to his farming business while Governor-he had done right-the duties of his office did not require he should be here much of the time-he could and did discharge his offi cial duties well, and attended to his farm besides.

There was now two candidates in nomination for

that same office--both well qualified for the place. There was no difficulty in finding competent men at the present salary, willing to accept of the office. Was it a fact that the office of Governor went a begging for a candidate to fill it? or was the converse true, that candidates went a begging for the office? He would refer to the State conventions where these nominations were quently used to secure a nomination? If intrigue, made, and would inquire if every means was not frewriggling and twisting of every kind was not frequently practised to secure the desired object? How was it with respect to the other offices in the State? Do they beg for candidates, or do candidates beg for them? Every body knows how this is. No body refuses to take office because the salary or fees is too low-on the He would like to see the salaries of a few reduced so contrary the country is overrun with office seekers. low as to put a check upon office seeking.

Another duty of the Governor was to issue his proclamation, giving notice of the Presidential election, and to attend here when the electors for President and Vice President cast their vote. These were but trifling duties, and occurred but once in four years. Another duty was to grant pardons. He was by law commander-in-chief of the militia and navy of this State. This was not an arduous duty. He spent no time with the militia, and as to the navy, he [Mr. C.] know of none except the canal boats on the different ditches of this State, and he thought the Governor did not spend much time in attending to them. Another duty was to convene the Legislature in urgent cases, and adjourn it when the two houses could not agree on a time of adjournment, neither of which often occur. He also is required to demand fugitives from justice, and to deliv-ed with great expense. er up such as flee to this State. To draw this State's portion of the public arms. To approve of the bond given by the Auditor of State. To discharge mortgages given to the State. To notify once in four years the assessors to take the census. To give notice of the sale of canal lands, and appoint the appraisers. To appoint two directors of the Ohio and Pennsylvania Ca

The people, so far as he knew, expected that salaries should be fixed by the constitution. Such was the feeling expressed in his part of the State. If left to the Legislature to fix from time to time, it would be attend

The high taxes that the people are now made to pay, requires that the expenses of the State government should be as light as possible. He would prefer fixing a point in all salaries, above which the Legislature should not go. There was no danger of their fixing the salaries too low. The danger was the other way. Last winter it was proposed in the Legislature, and

A few days since, in debate, the retrenchment law of 1844 was spoken of. It was not now directly before the committee but he would give it a passing notice. One gentleman while then remarking upon it said that not a member who voted for it wanted it to pass. Very likely that is so, but the people wanted it to pass-they demanded a retrenchment in salaries and fees, and it was only because the Legislature knew that the peo-like dray horses-than on their own private account. ple demanded it that the law was passed-they dare not refuse it. The law, however, was intentionally so framed as to defeat the wishes of the people. Instead of reducing salaries and fees in such cases and in such manner as would effect the object, it reduced the salaries of the judges of the supreme court, a thing that no body had asked for or desired. This with other things was done with the intention of making the law as odious and objectionable to the people as possible, with the hope they would soon cali for its repeal.