RULES. I. Upon the appearance of a quorum, the President shall take the chair, and the Convention shall be called to order. 2. The minutes of the preceding day shall then be read, at which time, mistakes, if any, shall be corrected. 3. The President shall preserve order and decorum, and shall decide questions of order, subject to an appeal to the Convention; he shall have the right to nominate any member to perform the duties of the chair; but such substitution shall not extend beyond an adjournment. 4. All motions and addresses shall be made to the President-the member rising from his seat. 5. No motion shall be debated or put, unless the same shall be seconded; when a motion is seconded, it shall be stated by the President, before debate: and every motion shall be reduced to writing, on the request of the President, or any member. 6. On any questions taken, the yeas and nays shall be entered, if requested by ten members. 7. If two or more members shall rise at once, the President shall name the member who is first to speak. 8. That no interruption shall be suffered while a member is speaking, but by a call to order, by the President, or by a member, through the President, when the member called to order shall immediately sit down, until permitted by the President to proceed. 9. While the President is putting the question, no member shall walk out of, or across the house, nor when a member is speaking, shall any member be engaged in conversation, or pass between him and the chair. 10. That no member be referred to by name in any debate. 11. That any member, making a motion, may withdraw it before the question is put thereon, and before amendment made—after which any other member may renew the same motion. 12. All committees shall be nominated by the President, and agreed to by the Convention, unless otherwise ordered by the Convention. 13. That none be admitted within the bar, without permission of the President, except the members of the Convention, and its attendants, the Governor, Lieutenant-Governor, Judges of the Supreme Court, the late Chancellor, the Attorney-General, Comptroller, Treasurer, Secretary, and Surveyor-General. 14. The previous question shall be always in order, and, until decided, shall preclude all amendment and debate of the main question, and shall be in this form, “shall the main question be now put ?” 15. All questions shall be put in the order they are moved, except in cases of amendment and filling up blanks, when the amendment last proposed, the highest number and longest time shall be first put. 16. A motion to adjourn shall be always in order, and shall be decided without debate. 17. In forming committees of the whole, the President, before he leaves the chair, shall appoint a chairman. 18. No member shall speak more than twice to the same question, without leave, nor more than once until every member choosing to speak shall have spoken. 19. No motion for reconsideration shall be in order, unless on the same day, or day following that on which the decision proposed to be re-considered took place, nor unless one of the majority shall move such reconsideration: A motion for reconsideration being put, and lost, shall not be renewed, nor shall any subject be a second time reconsidered without the consent of the Corvention. 20. The preceding rules shall be observed in a committee of the whole, so far as they are applicable, except that part of the 18th rule, which restricts members from speaking more than twice upon the same question. 21. The President may admit such and as many Stenographers within the bar of the house as he may deem proper. [Pursuant to the last mentioned rule, the President assigned seats within the bar, to WILLIAM L. STONE, NATHANIEL H. CARTER, M. T. C. GOULD, LEVI H. CLARKE, and MOSES I. CANTINE, as Stenographers.] Mr. LIVINGSTON offered a resolution directing the Secretaries of the Convention to employ Messrs. Cantine and Leake, editors of the Albany Argus, to execute the printing for the Convention. GEN. TALLMADGE moved to strike out the words " Editors of the Albany Argus," and insert " Printers to the State." Carried. On motion of MR. SHARPE, two hundred copies of the Rules and Orders were ordered to be printed. GEN. ROOT then offered a resolution appointing Henry Bates, door-keeper to the Convention. Some desultory remarks were made upon the manner in which the choice should be made, whether by resolution or by ballot; and also upon the number of door-keepers and assistants that would be wanted. A motion by Mr. Lansing, that the Convention proceed to elect their door-keepers by ballot, finally prevailed. A ballot was therefore taken, and on being counted, Henry Bates, John Bryan, and Richard Ten Broeck, were declared to be elected. On motion of MR. FAIRLIE, Lewis Le Couteulx was appointed an additional sergeant at arms. Mr. SANFORD moved that the usual number of copies of the Constitution of this state, be printed for the use of the members. Adopted. On motion of GEN. TALLMADGE, five hundred copies of the Journals of the Convention, were ordered to be printed. On motion of MR. SHARPE, 11 o'clock, A. M. was fixed upon as the hour of meeting, until otherwise directed. The Convention then adjourned. THURSDAY, AUGUST 30, 1821. Prayer by the Rev. Dr. CUMMING. The Convention was called to order by the President at the appointed hour, and the journal of yesterday was read, and approved. On motion of MR. VAN VECHTEN, Resolved, That the privileges of admission within the Bar of this Convention be extended to the former Governors, and Justices of the Supreme Court of Judicature, of this State. MR. KING rose, and remarked, that it was highly important to proceed correctly and judiciously in the outset of the business of this Convention. Various plans had been suggested for making such amendments as the existing constitution was supposed to require. In the formation of new constitutions, it had been usual to refer the whole subject to a special committee. But in the revision of existing constitutions, different methods had been adopted. In some cases, as in the recent instance of Massachusetts, a catalogue of amendments were moved by one individual, and referred by the Convention to several select committees. In others, the whole subject had been referred to one committee. In other instances, different individuals have offered distinct propositions relative to different branches of the subject, which have obtained a similar reference. The magnitude of an entire proposition might be appalling to a single individual, and, perhaps, excite personal prejudices; and, on the other hand, distinct propositions from different individuals are liable to incongruities and collisions, in the opinions of those who are called to act upon them. Moreover, premature discussions may, in this way, take place, that may commit men at too early a stage of the business. In this view of the subject, it seems to be expedient to take such a course as will preserve the greatest possible harmony and good feeling and for this pur pose, the business should be brought up in such a manner as is best calculated to divest it of every thing like personal character, or particular and personal views. It was, therefore, his intention to propose, that a committee be appointed for the purpose of devising the manner in which it was expedient to take up the business of the Convention. Not that the committee should report amendments, but that they should point out such parts of the constitution, as, in their opinion, require amendment and alteration; in order that these subjects, thus brought before the Convention, for their consideration, might be classified and referred to different select committees, to examine and report in what manner, and to what extent, such alterations shall be made; such reports to be subject to the alterations and amendments which the Convention may make. In this way, MR. KING believed that nothing of a personal character would intervene to disturb the harmony and good temper of the Convention; that no gentleman would feel compromised by preconceived or premature opinions, nor subject to prejudice, in favour or against, any of those important matters that would thus come before them. Emanating from a numerous committee, they would not be likely to excite jealousies, nor to meet personal opposition: but would, in his opinion, lead the Convention to such a calm, temperate and wise deliberation upon the matter before them, as the nature of the subject required. I would respectfully suggest, said Mr. King, although I fully concur in the fitness and expediency of calling this Convention; and although I am fully of the opinion that the change of circumstances and political relations in our country have imperiously required the interposition of the people to revise the constitution that governs them; my hope, that the Convention may proceed with great caution and moderation. It is due to ourselves, it is due to our constituents, and to our country, that we deliberate with a moderation and firmness that shall be decisive, both in its character and in its purpose; that shall inspire our constituents with confidence in the prudence of this body, and prepare the public mind for the impartial examination of the amendments which may be proposed. In this country, no man doubts, no one fears, that the great principles of liberty which lie at the foundation of our free Constitutions, are insufficient for the preservation of our freedom. These considerations forcibly urge the observance of moderation, of mutual confidence, and the most exemplary prudence in our proceedings. But these great principles of free government, which arise from, and can only be sustained by, the intelligence and virtue of the people, are not only denied by the great nations of the old world, but a contrary and most slavish doctrine is proclaimed and enforced by them-a doctrine which falsely assumes, that a select portion of mankind only are set apart by Providence, and made solely responsible for the government of mankind. In contradiction to this theory, it is our bounden duty to make it manifest to all men, that a free people are capable of self-government; that they can make, and abate, and remake their constitution; and, at all times, that our public liberties, when impaired, may be renovated, without destroying those securities which education and manners, our laws and constitutions have provided. MR. KING thereupon moved, That a committee be appointed to consider and report the manner in which it will be expedient to take up the business of this Convention. The question being put, it was carried unanimously. MR. FAIRLIE moved that the committee be appointed by ballot, and the president assented to the propriety of taking this course, as he had not a list of the members before him, with the counties from whence they came. MR. KING moved that the Convention adjourn, as the choice of the committee should not be made hastily. MR. FAIRLIE had no idea of going into the choice of a committee now. If his motion to appoint the committee by ballot should prevail, he should wish the choice might be made to-morrow morning. MR. SHARPE, thought the Convention should adjourn. No gentleman, not even the President, could, at the moment, and without reflection, select thirteen suitable men for this important committee. GEN. ROOT hoped the gentleman from Queens (Mr. King) would withdraw his motion for an adjournment, until the question should be settled as to the manner in which this committee is to be appointed. He wished the question to be taken on the motion of the gentleman from New-York (Mr. Fairlie) and trusted that it would be rejected. It would be difficult, if not impossible, if the committee were chosen by ballot, to have them properly distributed through the state. The scattering votes might occasion the election, for instance, of four or five from the city of New-York. MR. KING withdrew his motion for adjournment; and the question was taken on Mr. Fairlie's motion, which was negatived. MR. YOUNG spoke in favour of reconsidering the resolution appointing a committee of thirteen. He presumed that such a committee was intended merely to designate the heads of the proposed amendments to the constitution. After that committee have reported, their report will be before the Convention. We shall have to deliberate upon it, and adopt, amend, or reject it. While this committee of thirteen are engaged in digesting their report, the Convention will have nothing to do. He would therefore propose a reconsideration of the proceedings in relation to this subject. He thought that such a loss of time might be saved by referring the constitution at once to a committee of the whole. MR. KING opposed the motion, on the ground that it would defeat the very object of the resolution that had just been passed. The object of the motion, which he had had the honour of submitting to the Convention, was, to take away from such propositions as might be made, all imputations of personal character; and that the measures proposed might appear to be, as he trusted they would be, the measures of the house. GEN. ROOT. I hope, sir, the motion of the honourable gentleman from Saratoga (Mr. Young) will prevail; and that the constitution will be referred to a committee of the whole. The object, I presume, in making the committee so numerous, was to embrace within it as much wisdom and experience as possible; there would doubtless be accumulated a greater mass of wisdom in a committee of thirteen, than in an ordinary committee of six or seven; but it would be an ill compliment to suppose, that an equal mass of wisdom would be found even in a committee of thirteen, as in this whole body. I have objections to this committee being instructed to point out what parts of the constitution need amendment. If the committee should be so fortunate, as to agree on the subjects of amendment, their recommendations would then be submitted to the Convention, and the members would in some measure be tramelled by the report. Unavailing would be the efforts of any gentleman to resist such an accuinulated force. Sir, it would be delegating to thirteen members the power of pointing out what parts of the constitution want amending. But if the constitution be referred to a committee of the whole, each member may have a proposition to make in the same manner as a committee of thirteen. Each one takes it up, and it is subsequently discussed and acted upon by all; and if this should be done with deliberation, much time may be saved in our future discussions. Should propositions thus submitted pass in committee of the whole, any gentleman would think it unavailing to move an amendment. In my judgment, therefore, the true course will be, to refer the constitution to a committee of the whole. In that way resolutions may be offered by any gentleman, in favour of such amendments, as he may deem proper. If such propositions should be crude and indigested, they might then be referred to select committees. Again: This committee of thirteen might find it difficult to agree among themselves, as to what should, and what should not, be reported, as subjects for amendinent. And what are the other members to be about all this time? Peradventure, a week might be spent by this committee, before they would be ready, with all their industry, to submit the result of their labours to the Convention; and in the mean time those who are not on this committee will have nothing to do. We can all be engaged in committee of the whole, and all profit by the wise suggestions made by gentlemen in favour of their respective propositions. But whilst the thirteen are deliberating, we lose our time, and all the wise suggestions which might be made, by the individual members of the committee; and in my judgment, it would be throwing away our time very unprofitably; as the report of the committee will not express the sentiments of this Convention. It will be merely an expression of the will of a majority of thirteen, which will probably be seven gentlemen; and these are to govern this whole Convention. Unquestionably, the honourable member, who moved that this committee be appointed, will be one of that number; then, if he and six others should agree on the propositions to be submitted to the Convention for their consideration, I should consider my humble efforts exerted in vain, to resist such a force: I should shrink from the undertaking. I believe that the honorable member from Saratoga moved that the business allotted to this committee of thirteen, be submitted to a committee of the whole. I hope the former resolution may be reconsidered and amended agreeably to his proposition. The motion to reconsider was lost; and the Convention adjourned. FRIDAY, AUGUST 31, 1821. The Convention was called to order at 11 o'clock. Prayer by the Rev. Mr. LACEY. Minutes read and approved. The President announced the committee of thirteen, as directed by the reselution of Mr. King, adopted yesterday. They are as follows: Mr. King, of the county of Queens. Mr. Sanford, of the county of New-York. Mr. Tallmadge, of the county of Dutchess. Mr. Kent, of the county of Albany. Mr. Pitcher, of the counties of Washington and Warren, Mr. N. Williams, of the county of Oneida. MR. WREELER moved an adjournment till 3 o'clock. The committee will probably, be ready to make some report this afternoon. MR. YOUNG thought the committee would be able to report in an hour. Their duty was only to report distinct propositions. He thought they had better adjourn till 12 o'clock, and moved to amend the motion of Mr. Wheeler accordingly. MR. ROOT. Do the gentlemen think that this committee of thirteen members, no two of whom, probably, have ever spoken together upon the subjects to come before them, will be able to report in an hour? I think not. The Convention had better adjourn till 4 o'clock-after dinner. Moved accordingly; and carried. Adjourned. AFTERNOON—4 O'CLOCK. The President having taken the chair, MR. KING, from the committee appointed to consider and report in what manner it would be expedient to take up the business of this Convention, presented the following resolutions: |