Mr. POTTER. The Secretary of Agriculture has submitted a brief report to the committee calling attention to the important points, I think, and that will probably be a matter of record.

The CHAIRMAN. That report will go in the record at this point.

Hon. F. W. Mondell,

Chairman Committee on Public Lands,

House of Representatives.

MARCH 30, 1910.

DEAR SIR: In response to your request of February 14 in reference to H. R. 2258 (granting right of way over certain sections of the Grand Canyon Monument Reserve, in Arizona, to the Grand Canyon Scenic Railroad Company), I find that this bill proposes to grant the railroad company a permanent easement over a part of the Grand Canyon National Monument along the rim of the canyon for the purpose of exploiting the scenery for private gain. It imposes no restrictions and authorizes no official supervision to prevent defacing of natural beauties and wonders by the construction or operation of the road. It would permit the grantee to monopolize many of the most desirable view points to the exclusion of the general public, and would involve the removal from the rim of the canyon of the forest trees, which add much to the scenic effect.

The act of June 8, 1906 (34 Stat., 225), authorizing the President to set aside national monuments, evidently contemplates the preservation of objects of historic or scientific interest, in order that they may be seen, studied, and enjoyed in their natural state. In my judgment, the existence of the proposed railroad, or any railroad similarly located, would be inconsistent with the purposes of this act and out of keeping with the character of the place.

Moreover, I do not believe that any permanent easement should be granted within the borders of national monuments. In this respect they should be placed on a basis similar to that of national parks and all privileges should be granted for reasonable terms of years, subject to regulation and control by the proper department to prevent injury to the objects of interest and to protect the traveling public from extortionate charges arising from exclusive franchises.

The Forest Service has caused to be prepared with great care working plans for a system of roads and trails to render all practicable parts of the monument accessible to the public. An important feature of these plans is a road which is to follow the southern edge of the canyon far enough back to preserve the fringe of trees along the rim.

For a considerable distance the route of the proposed railroad would come in direct conflict with this road.

A bill has been introduced in the House by the Hon. Ralph H. Cameron, Delegate from Arizona (H. R. 20819), to appropriate $110,000 to be expended under the direction of this department in carrying out these plans. This bill has been referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and it is hoped will become a law at this session. I therefore recommend that the bill granting a right of way to the railroad company should not become a law.

Very respectfully,

JAMES WILSON, Secretary.

Mr. POTTER. The important point here, it strikes me, is that this national monument was set aside by a proclamation of the President within the boundaries of the Grand Canyon National Forest for the purpose of preserving the scenic beauty and the natural features of the Grand Canyon, and that places upon the Department of Agriculture the responsibility of preserving the canyon as near as possible in its natural condition; so that we do not look with favor upon anything in the nature of an exploitation of its resources, or any disturbance of the natural features to a greater degree than is necessary to make it accessible to the public. We have already done considerable improvement work there, and have plans for other improvement work which we expect to do in the future in the way of trails and roads to make it possible for the public to reach the points of scenic interest. Therefore we do not look with favor upon the construction of a railroad there along the plan proposed in this bill, which would necessarily cause the removal of a good deal of timber from the brink

of the canyon, and we think would interfere seriously with the scenic effects. Then, also, the bill proposes to grant a permanent right of way to this company, and I do not believe that any permanent right of way should be granted which would take away from the Government the right at certain intervals to revise the terms of the agreement under which the road is operated or which would not require the grantee to comply with such stipulations as were necessary to protect the interests of the national monument.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you examined the provisions of this bill? I am unable to determine from a hurried reading of the bill whether this right of way is simply along the brink of the Grand Canyon, or whether it contemplates a scenic railway down into the canyon.

Mr. POTTER. It contemplates both, Mr. Chairman. I have seen some of Mr. Oppmann's plans, gone over them in detail, and they contemplate the building of a road on the extreme brink of the

canyon.

The CHAIRMAN. For what distance?

Mr. POTTER. For a considerable distance; a distance, I would say, of probably 25 miles, following all of the crooks and turns of the rim from the Grand Canyon station to what is commonly known as Grand View Point. By the old wagon road, which goes through the timber on a comparatively straight line, the distance is about 15 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. Then the right of way asked for is practically all on the extreme brink?

Mr. POTTER. Yes; and where it will overlook the canyon all the way around. It also contemplates a tunnel through the first big cliff. The formation of the canyon there is about like this [indicating with a piece of paper]. There is first a high cliff, very nearly perpendicular, and then a bench; and then a second cliff almost perpendicular off in the canyon at the river. They contemplate tunneling down to the level of this bench or mesa and then running a little railway along it to the brink of the canyon of the river, which would be the terminal of that portion of the railroad. The CHAIRMAN. That is what they call the brink of the Granite Gorge.

Mr. POTTER. That is what they term the brink of the Granite Gorge. It is about 2,000 feet above the river.

The CHAIRMAN. How far below the top of the mesa?

Mr. POTTER. About 3,000 feet. It is approximately 5,000 feet from the top to the river.

Mr. VOLSTEAD. Do they tunnel the lower bench ?

Mr. POTTER. They would tunnel through the first big cliff, which is approximately 3,000 feet, and then run out on the mesa to the brink of the second cliff.

Mr. VOLSTEAD. How far on the mesa?

Mr. POTTER. It would be 2 or 3 miles.

Mr. HUGHES. That would be the terminus of the road? Mr. POTTER. Of that part of the road. They also contemplate a road which will run along the brink of the canyon from the Grand Canyon station to Grand View Point, a distance of about 25 miles. That would follow all the curves of the canyon.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlemen who are interested in the legislation are here now, and perhaps it would be just as well to hear

from you, Mr. Potter, a little later. The committee would like to hear from Mr. Oppmann, who is thoroughly familiar with the situation, and would like to know just what is proposed by the legislation before us. Whom do you desire to have heard first?

Mr. OPPMANN. Mr. Neal.

STATEMENT OF MR. C. J. NEAL, OF CLEVELAND, OHIO.

Mr. NEAL. The legislation which is asked for on behalf of the Grand Canyon Scenic Railroad Company, which is a corporation organized under the laws of Arizona, is for the purpose of constructing a tourist railway from the El Tovar Hotel, on the rim of the Grand Canyon, eastward along the rim of the canyon to Grand View Point.

The CHAIRMAN. How far?

Mr. NEAL. A distance, by air line, of 14 miles, or along the rim approximately 16 to 18 miles. The survey is completed and has been presented to the Land Office, calling for a right of way along the rim at a distance possibly of 100 or 200 feet from the edge of the rim.

The CHAIRMAN. Allow me right there to say that one objection urged is that the construction of your railroad along the proposed right of way would result in the destruction of a fringe of timber along the brink of the canyon.

Mr. NEAL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't want to break into your statement further than to ask for an answer to that objection.

Mr. NEAL. For a distance of possibly 100 or 200 feet from the rim of this canyon there is no timber to amount to anything other than that of scrubby and straggling growth; and there are openings possibly at intervals of a half a mile or a mile. The purpose of the road is not to take away that timber, not to destroy the property of the Government, or anything of that kind, but to run the road so as to strike this canyon at intervals so that tourists can have a panoramic view of the canyon. The railroad is perfectly willing to have the line constructed back a safe distance from the edge of the canyon so that there will be no timber destroyed, if it can be done, and the engineers have found that to be absolutely practicable and possible. That has been the objection which has been urged heretofore.

The CHAIRMAN. However, I assume that you are to have a scenic road, the object of which is to give tourists the opportunity to view the canyon from the road, so that that road must be located quite near the brink of the canyon in many places, must it not?

Mr. NEAL. That perhaps was one of the purposes, but not entirely the purpose. The object was to establish stations, just as is done on the gorge line at Niagara Falls, where these tourist trains would stop, and view points would be established. At the present time the tourists go to the El Tovar Hotel and take a bus line through the woods on a diagonal cut some 14 miles, and come out again at Grand View Point. The tourist gets in the bus at El Tovar Hotel, is driven through an immense forest, and comes out at Grand View Point. That is a trip which consumes an entire day.

The CHAIRMAN. How far is that?

Mr. NEAL. Fourteen miles up and 14 miles back, thus making a day's trip out of it under the present system.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they get any view of the Grand Canyon at all until they reach the Grand View Point?

Mr. NEAL. No viewpoint whatever until they are set down at Grand View Point.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the mesa country at the top of the canyon wooded for a considerable distance back?

Mr. NEAL. That line, Mr. Chairman, possibly goes at some points 3 miles from the rim, through a dense forest

The CHAIRMAN. The forest extends unbroken back from the rim for a number of miles?

Mr. NEAL. Yes. The survey shows it. The tourists get two viewpoints, one at El Tovar Hotel and one at Grand View Point. The road running from the El Tovar Hotel to Grand View Point at the present time is closed practically from November until April. The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Mr. NEAL. On account of the weather. It is impassable, and they are even at times obliged to let the mail go.

The CHAIRMAN. What kind of weather do they have in that southern climate that interferes with travel during the winter?

Mr. NEAL. Severe snowstorms and wet weather, which make the roads impassable. I have not been there at that time of the year, though Mr. Oppmann has. Last winter I believe the road was closed from November until early this spring, and of course tourists at that time had an opportunity of seeing only that point in front of the El Tovar Hotel.

That is one of the purposes of the road. Another purpose is that the only way to get into this canyon is by means of trails. The trail at the hotel is known as Bright Angel trail.

The CHAIRMAN. That leaves the brink of the canyon at the hotel, does it?

Mr. NEAL. Yes; and winds itself away down through a route probably 2 miles in length to a place known as the Indian Garden, which is a plateau 1,600 feet above the river. From the Indian Garden there is a small plateau probably a distance of a mile, and then there is a sheer drop of 1,600 feet to the Colorado River.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there no trail from that point down to the river? Mr. NEAL. Oh, yes; that is the most dangerous part of the whole trip the trail that goes through what is known as the Granite Gorge.

The CHAIRMAN. How long is that trail from Indian Garden down to the river?

Mr. NEAL. Possibly a distance of another mile, and that goes through what is known as the Granite Gorge. And beyond that is the famous Corkscrew, which is a sheer ladder cut in the stone. The CHAIRMAN. The length of the Bright Angel trail is what? Mr. NEAL. Approximately 3 miles long.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it a comparatively safe horse trail?

Mr. NEAL. No; absolutely not. It is the reverse. When the President was there on the last trip, they refused to allow him to go down.

The CHAIRMAN. The President is a large man in every way.

Mr. NEAL. A man of 200 pounds or over. It is a trip of such danger that when the people come up from the journey they take to bed and lie in bed for a day or two to rest up-it is an arduous and dangerous trip. At some places you have to get off the mule and walk alone.

The CHAIRMAN. What do they charge for taking tourists from the hotel over the Bright Angel trail and back?

Mr. NEAL. Four dollars.

The CHAIRMAN. That includes the cost of the horse or mule, and all? Mr. NEAL. The horse, and it includes the guide that goes with the party. They generally go in parties of 15 or 20. The purpose is to build a tunnel-to go back from the brink possibly 1,000 or 2,000 feet and go in with a tunnel, and out near the Indian Garden.

The CHAIRMAN. Your proposed tunnel is near the hotel, is it? Mr. NEAL. Yes; near the hotel grounds; possibly 1,000 feet back. That is located by the engineers for the purpose of getting the proper slope and not making it too precipitous. That goes down and comes out about the Indian Garden. The object would be in that instance to have cars on a cable line equipped in every way as modern as possible so as to prevent any danger to life. There is also a survey of that.

The CHAIRMAN. What sort of construction do you propose from the Indian Garden down?

Mr. NEAL. From the Indian Garden to the river there is no line proposed. From the Indian Garden to the river bank there would be simply a tramway, perhaps, to take the people over that stretch. The CHAIRMAN. An aerial tram?

Mr. NEAL. Oh, no; right on the level.

The CHAIRMAN. I didn't know but that you proposed to take the people down in a cage.

Mr. NEAL. No [explains on map]..

The CHAIRMAN. This is a sketch of your proposed line from the Indian Garden to the brink of the river?

Mr. NEAL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. How long will that line be?

Mr. NEAL. I don't know the exact length, but it will not be very long-probably not over a half a mile or something like that.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you photographs of the various points of interest?

Mr. NEAL. Yes; we have photographs which we would be glad to hand to you [explaining photographs to the members of the committee]. This is the terminal of the Santa Fe Railroad. This is the El Tovar Hotel, and the trail is indicated by this fine line. It leads down to what is known as the Indian Garden, located here [indicating]. From this point to this point, the drop is some 4,500 feet. The CHAIRMAN. That is, from the hotel to the Indian Garden. Mr. FERRIS. What is the Indian Garden?

Mr. NEAL. That is the name given to a plateau where there is a little spring; a sort of resting place; a kind of oasis in the desert. The CHAIRMAN. How wide is that bench?

Mr. NEAL. The plateau extends, then, clear through to the river bank.

The CHAIRMAN. How wide is it?