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Senator BENNETT. How old are you, Deborah?

Miss GOTTLIEB. Well, I am 11.

Senator CURTIS. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, we are delighted to have Deborah; and, Mrs. Gottlieb, before you start, the full title of your group is the National Council of Senior Citizens?

Mrs. GOTTLIEB. Yes, I represent them, and I also represent the Chicago area of Senior Citizens, which comprises of about 110 small clubs with a membership of about 3,500. Then I am honorary president of the President's Council of the Jewish Community Center. They have about 22 senior adult clubs comprising about 2,500.

Senator CURTIS. Are you familiar with the name of Mr. William Hutton?

Mrs. GOTTLIEB. What is that?

Senator CURTIS. Are you acquainted with the name of Mr. William Hutton?

Mrs. GOTTLIEB. Hutton?

Senator CURTIS. Yes. He is assistant director of the Senior Citi

zens.

Mrs. GOTTLIEB. Of the National Council.

Senator LONG. Mrs. Gottlieb you can proceed as you would care to and then we could have questions if it would be satisfactory.

Mrs. GOTTLIEB. May I.

Mr. Chairman and members of the Senate Finance Committee, as I told you before, I am vice president of the Chicago area association of the senior citizens, consisting of 100 clubs in all with a membership of about 3,500, and I am also honorary president of the President's Council of the Jewish Community Center with 22 clubs throughout the metropolitan area of Chicago consisting of about 2,500 members.

In addition, I am also the national vice president of the National Council of Senior Citizens. I have been working on my own here in Washington interviewing Congressmen and Senators for the past 7 years. I have been very active.

Why have I been so active for medicare? Because coming in contact with so many of the older people, seeing their poverty and their needs, gave me the incentive to work for this medicare bill.

Many of them have absolutely no assets at all. Some of them are not even under social security, and have to look to their children for maintenance.

The children themselves are hard pressed, too. Many older people do not have children or anyone else to turn to. In speaking to one of your Congressmen, I will not mention his name, and I suppose I am not allowed to, he asked me when I interviewed him. He asked me: "Mrs. Gottlieb, how come that the older people did not provide for their senior years, or for their retirement?"

And this is what I told him: "Perhaps you do not remember that we older people went through two wars, depressions, and recessions. They did not want to stand in the breadlines or the soup kitchens so they used up their finances."

I would like to tell you about my own case history.

When the First World War broke out, naturally I wasn't married then until 1917. My first child came, was born in 1918. We had saved a little money. When he was 5 years of age, he had mastoid operation, $1,100. I did not have that much. I had to borrow some.

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That was paid back. I am of a very independent nature and I did not want to go to my family. Most of them have their own troubles. Then the Second World War came. We could not have insurance because my husband was a diabetic.

I managed to save some money. Then in 1945, I had surgery. In 1951, I was operated on again.

In 1956 again, and in 1961, there was more surgery. You would be surprised if I tell you this, seeing that I am so active, that two of these illnesses were cancer. The doctors tell me that when I have passed the 5-year point, I will live a long time.

Now they do not guarantee that I am free entirely. I get checked by four doctors on account of the surgery that I had.

My case is somewhat similar to the people I represent. Today I live only on my social security. I have absolutely no other assets or financial income. I am an independent spirit. I do not like to go to neighbors or to friends. If you want to lose friends, just go to a friend and try to borrow money.

So you see, for 17 years I have been a widow, and managed to get along on the little I had until that was spent.

I would like to tell you about this. In June of 1947 my husband took sick with a heart attack. It was so bad he could not be removed to the hospital. For 3 weeks I had oxygen every single day at $17 a day. I had to have two nurses around the clock. By the time I paid the doctor's bill and paid all the bills relative to his sickness, there was very little left.

I did have a nest egg of $3,000. But deduct all these bills that I had to pay, feeding two nurses and all, there was very little left.

Now then, should another illness occur, I would have to ask my family. They have children of their own and today bringing up children is a very expensive proposition.

When my children were born, the only time I had a doctor for them was when they were sick, but today children get checkups practically every month for all kinds of allergy, sicknesses, smallpox, polio, and so forth, that is an expense to an average family.

Besides that, the administration stresses the fact, keep the children in college, they need more doctors, scientists, and so forth.

Now, who are these young people to take care of first, their own children or a father and mother, and you must not forget that some children have two sets of parents, the husband's parents, and the wife's parents to look after.

A story was I want to read this to you-a story was carried in the Chicago Daily News and other papers by W. M. Newman on July 27, 28, and 29 this year concerning foreign visitors at a Chicago supermarket. They noticed several men loading grocery carts with cat and dog food. One of them asked, "For your pets, they must eat a lot."

The man replied, "No, it's for us. It's all we can afford."

The clerk in the store indicated they had quite a few who can only afford cat and dog food. The article went on to say that more money is being spent on food for the animals in our zoo in Chicago than older people receive from public assistance and minimum social security. I would like to insert this series of articles in the record, because

it reflects the problems we of Chicago face. I am sure other cities have similar problems.

This small social security increase you have been considering isn't the answer and you know it. A dollar a week raise for the increased cost of living is nothing compared with the $144-a-week raise you gave yourselves.

We tell you frankly we would rather have medicare, the KingAnderson-Javits type, which is worth more than $180 a year if purchased as a private insurance policy. Many of us couldn't qualify to buy such insurance even if we had the money. As hospital costs keep going up medicare will be worth a lot more, and the cash or private insurance a lot less.

You are leaving out millions of people if you simply pass the Mills bill. The retired railroaders who will get nothing unless you pass the medicare bill, and many retired people on State and local civil service, teachers on pensions, a number of persons on private pensions and those on public assistance will simply have the 5-percent social security increase deducted from their other pensions or benefits and will receive no increase at all.

I can tell you committee members that it is most difficult to meet hospital and doctor bills when you have only income from social security. And it's even worse to have to become a pauper in order to secure help when you do not have the necessary money for these expenses.

It's a known fact that many who are eligible for social security and who receive same, will go on living with our illnesses rather than take the pauper's oath. It will no doubt shorten the lives of many. It is my honest belief that if this measure passes, it will allow many people, who today are suffering from various illnesses to get medical attention.

In this connection I would like to submit for the record one of the most dramatic cases showing the need for hospital care legislation that we have encountered so far. The facts of this case appeared last year in a letter to the editor in a Peoria, Ill., newspaper. The case described in this article occurred in Peoria, a city of 110,000 people. The letter is as follows:

On Thursday August 8 1963 I played a political football game with a man's life. Yes this is no joke. The man was 69 years old and his eyes were set. He was cold and clammy feeling. He lives on what he receives from his old-age pension (which most of us couldn't start to live on). He had been sick for 3 days and had nothing to eat in that period of time.

He was so weak he couldn't walk under his own power. He had stayed in his own room all during this time for he didn't want anyone to worry about him. What at last he came out, it was for help. But where is a man in his condition

supposed to get help? The old-age pension, naturally.

Oh, no. We called them and told them he was sick. They said to send him to the emergency room at the hospital. He was left there, thinking he would get help. He waited in the hall for 45 minutes to an hour.

The first thing they asked was did he have a doctor or did he have insurance. No, he had neither. What transpired between the hospital and old-age pension then is beyond me. All I know is they sent this man, too weak, home in a cab, not knowing if someone was there to help him or not. We paid the cab.

We then decided to call the relief office and see if we could get some assistance there. After telling Zack Monroe the details, he said he would call back if he found a solution. He never called back.

Looking at this old man, I realized he needed medical attention fast or it would be too late. My only solution was the State hospital in Bartonville. This was suggested by the old-age pension. I took him over there, with the assistance of another man since I couldn't handle him by myself. We had to support all of his weight. Upon being admitted to the admitting office, I was told they only took mental patients. To this I replied: "If nothing else, I'll say he's crazy. He needs a doctor." They asked if I were a relative. No, I'm just a friend. Many questions kept coming.

me.

I pleaded for them to take him. I waited in the hall for the doctor to talk to When he finally came, he went out to the car with me, took one look at him and said: "We'll take him." I'm not a religious person but I stood in the heat and thanked God for finally finding a place for this old man.

People of Peoria, what are we supposed to do with our old people? We take in babies and we take in puppy dogs, but we kick the old people out. We have a humane society for dogs but what do we have for old people? Are we supposed to just sit back and let them die without even trying to help?

I'm 26 years old and the mother of six wonderful children. I thank God for this blessing and pray that my children won't have as much trouble getting help if I ever need it as bad as this man.

I was over to see my old friend Saturday afternoon and again today. It was his birthday. The only present I had for him was his life. No one else seemed to care about it.

Mrs. THELMA YARBROUGH.

Mrs. Yarbrough called our field representative, Mr. Ken Johnston, in Peoria after this letter appeared in the press. She authorized Mr. Johnston to give her letter the widest publicity. She urged the national council to exert the most terrific efforts to pass a medicare bill. Before I conclude, I have forgotten to mention about 4 years ago, I believe it was, I interviewed another Congressman.

He asked me how old I was and I told him, and he says, "Well, I am 78, and I am going to tell you something, Mrs. Gottlieb, I do not believe"-at that time it was the Aime Forand bill-"I don't believe in it because it is socialized medicine," and he tells me a story that his aunt had met with an accident. She had had trouble with her hip, they had to put in a plate, and he says, "By the time I got through paying her hospital, doctors, and medicines it came to close to $2,000."

And I looked at the Congressman and I says, "Now, weren't you pleased that you had that money. What are we to do with our people when they get sick, just let them lay there until they die?"

And this was his answer: "That is your problem and not mine." This Congressman is retired now, and I guess you can about guess who he is. At that time he was 78 years old.

So, you see, it is not just my case or the case that I have just read to you, it is the case of so many older people that I have come in contact with, and you will wonder why am I doing this. I am doing this because I want to forget what has happened to me and what might happen to me in the future, because every ache or pain that I get there is something in my mind. Maybe, maybe.

So, I get up in the morning and I go out and see what I can do; spread a little cheer to those that haven't got the means. Some of our people are really desperate, and to go again if this Congress goes through, I don't know if any of you know what a pauper's test means, it is practically degrading.

Don't forget that our older people have helped in their small way to build this glorious country of ours, and I think that they are entitled to be taken care of.

In conclusion, I do want to say this: I know the desperate situation
in which many of our older people find themselves. These are the
people, like I have said, who have built America, and who have made
it great. We did not expect to live so long, and I do not see how we
could have predicted the fantastic cost of hospital care.

For us there is only one thing that will let us sleep comfortably at
night and that is to know for sure that our hospital bills will be paid
if we have to go to the hospital. Kerr-Mills will not do that. Private
insurance will not do that. Only medicare can do that. I plead with
you to help those of us who are retired, and especially for those of
us who are widowed * * * please pass a medicare bill.

Won't you please let us live in the dignity and respect that I think
America owes us.

(The attachments referred to follow :)

CONDENSED SUMMARY OF INCOME STATUS OF OLDER AMERICANS

In 1961, 45 percent of the single persons over age 65 had less than $1,000 a
year cash income from all sources, two-thirds had less than $1,500 a year.
three-fourths had less than $2,000 a year, and only 1.2 percent had more than
$10.000 a year cash income from all sources.

In 1961, in the families whose head was over age 65, one-third had income
of less than $900 per person in the family, 40 percent had less than $1,000 per
person, two-thirds had $1,750 or less, and only 1.2 percent had more than $4,800
per person per year.

(Source: U.S. Census, February 1963, series P-60, No. 39.)

What widows and other single persons over age 65 who live alone get per day to
live on according to the 1960 census

(The includes all moneys from whatever source, including social security, pub-
lic welfare, veterans' benefits, employment, pensions, etc. It would be even less
if employed people over age 65 were left out.)

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