education and their board, and set forth and go through and make the best of citizens and the best of business men; but I think it is not the rule. I think the rule is, that the more you make them relf-reliant, by having them earn their own money and by having them feel that they must sustain and support themselves, the better it will be for themselves and others.

Mr. Clinton Babbitt, of Beloit - Mr. Anderson suggests that some one ought to talk on the other side of the question, but it would be pretty unfortunate perhaps for any one else but me because I expected Mr. Field would take the other side. He informed me a few minutes ago, on the other side of the chamber, that he always advocated the side of the under dog in the fight. Whether he made a truthful statement or not is for you to decide. As far as I am concerned, I could not impute to Mr. Field anything but a truthful intention; but if Mr. Field had a son, and he proposed to make him educate himself after a certain period after he had received a common school education — I should like to ask him, at present prices which farmers can afford to pay, how long that young man would probably be, in a short life like this, in attaining to a position which we would call manly, a position which would entitle him to be regarded as one of the agriculturists of the state of Wisconsin?

There are two sides to this question. It is indeed pleasant to see an elegant high school within our reach, within the reach of our children. Every honest man, every citizen of Wisconsin, every farmer ought to encourage them; he ought to do everything in his power to extend and disseminate education. But it all costs money; and if our laws, if our positions are not such, if our politics, our religión, our everything, is run in such a way that we have all we can possibly do as farmers just to keep both ends together, I should like to know whether there is not a great probability, if we go in for the school house, that we shall lose the farm?

Now these are rather sad reflections. It is indeed an unpleasant thing for farmers to look right straight at the facts that actually exist. We are represented in congress to-day-not by farmers; we are not represented by men who know really what

toil is, other than that which comes in the way of the education of the brain. How can we expect young men, the sons of our working farmers, keen, bright, smart fellows, in this day of progress, how can we expect them to come back to the farm, or earn their living by the sweat of their face. They see their father come in from his daily work, tired, disheartened and discouraged. They see him begin to feel in both pockets, when his hired man comes in and looks as though he would like to go to the circus, to find out where the fifty cents is to come from. They are keen; they notice all these things. Now I want to ask you, how in the world can we expect, with this state of things existing - farmers paying pretty much all the expenses of the government, paying their own expenses, paying for their pew rent, and all they give to the poor, for we have always had them with us since Jesus Christ said they should be with us; they have always been with us and always will be- I would like to ask you how we can expect that bright young men like these are going to come back to the farm and go to work. It is not the way to earn money no mistake about it where land is as high as it is in the state of Wisconsin.

Now I am a farmer. I earn every cent of the money that sustains a large family from the farm -- every dollar of it; but I tell you gentlemen, from experience, that it is not half as easy, not a third as easy, not one-twentieth as easy, as it was for me to earn as I did, for year after year, three thousand dollars on the road, by meeting the boys and tending to what is called a city profession. We have got to look to this thing. We have got to educate our boys, and we have got to see that the men who run our politics, the men who handle our money, really are men that are honest, who will look out for our interests and for the interest of the state; for it is true,

"Ill fares the land to hastening ills a prey,
Where wealth accumulates and men decay.
Princes and lords may flourish or may fade;
A breath can make them, as a breath has made.
But a bold peasantry, their country's pride,
When once destroyed can never be supplied."

Mr. Kellogg - It seems to me there are three sides to this question. I want to go a little further back than either of the other speakers, and come down to the drudgery of the farm. Here are farmers who have boys that have not got through their milking at nine o'clock at night, lots of them. They are up in the morning at five o'clock - I speak now of the boys. As soon as they are old enough to milk, they partake of the drudgery of the farm. In harvest time, they are expected to keep up with the men, do all the chores, and use the poorest tools. Look through the country, and see how many farm houses have surroundings that are attractive to the youth. See how many farm houses there are without a single shade tree; without a flower; without any of the beautiful works of horticulture; without any fruit in the garden. It is pork and beans, hog and hominy, week after week, year after year. There is not one farmer in ten who has a decent strawberry bed. You can raise strawberries by the bushel as easy as you can potatoes. and yet, here you are, living on potatoes and salt pork year after year. I would like to know why these bright boys should wish to go back to the farm.

Mr. Field - Do you suppose they would if you were to feed them on strawberries?

Mr. Kellogg Yes. They do not have one hour in the twentyfour they can call their own. They do not have half time to sleep. I would like to know how many boys have been pulled out of bed when they wanted to sleep an hour longer. Your city folks are hardly able to get up at nine o'clock; can hardly get out to conventions at that hour; but on the farm, the boys have to get out at five o'clock, summer and winter. I would like to have the home surroundings, the beautifying effects of horticul ture, the fruit and the shade trees, brought into the question.

Mr. Webster I cannot expect to talk here as can my friend Professor Daniells, and some others who are present. I am not used to talking in public, but I have a word to say, after all, as I am a farmer. I have farmed for thirty-five years in Wisconsin, though on a small scale. I have raised two boys, and have tried to educate them; did what I could in our own town; then I sent them to Columbus. One I sent here to Madison a few terms, and

then I sent him to La Crosse. The other I sent to Ripon and Milwaukee. My thought is that farmers do not pay enough atten. tion to this matter of educating their boys. I hear great complaint among the farmers here that the lawyers are filling the assembly chamber and the senate, and that the farmers' boys are not elected. The reason is they do not know enough. Their fathers did not teach them enough. If our boys were educated we could send them to fill places and occupations that they are not now capable of filling. I do not believe in keeping my boys on pork and beans, hominy and squeal. I believe when we raise the things ourselves we ought to have the best. I believe we owe it to ourselves not to sell the best and keep the poorest. If we raise a fat steer, keep him and eat him, and so with other things. We can do it and pay our taxes. I have always paid mine. My oldest boy I have with me on the farm to-day. My youngest says he thinks he is a little too smart; that he can get a living more easily in some other way; but he is good to work when he is at home. He wanted me to get him a place in Madison this winter; thought he could fill any place. He is now enrolling clerk in the senate. As I said before, we ought to have the best of everything ourselves— the best flour, the best meat. I do not believe in driving the boys out by feeding them on hominy and squeal. We should do the best we can for them, and if they wish to go away and are smart enough to get a living off the farm, let them go and help them do it. As to pulling them out of bed at five o'clock in the morning, I did not have to do that. When it was necessary to get up early, I got up and so did they. I do not believe in making slaves of boys. Mr. N. N. Palmer, of Brodhead - If this discussion goes on in this manner much longer, I think we had better all go home soon, or we will get sick of farming. Instead of benefiting the farmers, we will all get disgusted, and it will have a damaging effect. I agree with the last speaker in some respects-if we raise anything that is good, keep it ourselves, and if there is any left let the city folks have it. If I raise any specially choice apples, they go into my barrel for my own use. If there is anything that will make things pleasant at home, I try always to consider that first; and so far I do not think my children are getting very much discontented

with being on the farm. On the contrary, they all dislike the idea of leaving home in order to go to school. That is the reason I said amen to what the president said. If we could have a school where our children could be educated near our own homes, even if we had to drive four or five miles to reach it, they could get up at five o'clock; they would feel interest enough in getting an education to do it if it was necessary. I do not think this farmer's life is as dark as some of you have made it appear. It surely is not if we only take the right course. There are so few of our boys who go away to get educated, and when one does go to school, he finds an influence there which carries the idea all the time that farmers are slaves, mud hoppers, and all that sort of thing. There is so much of that, because there are so few representatives of the farmers in any one school that they get it impressed on them after being there a number of terms, and the prejudice becomes so strong that they cannot get rid of it. Then there is another point. Some of the boys have a natural inclination toward the different professions, while others take as naturally to the farm-are natural farmers and education will not hurt them, in my opinion.

Professor Daniells I hardly think this is a very profitable subject, but I want to say one word in reference to it. There seems to be an impression that there is a vast amount of sneering at a farmer's son the moment he gets off the farm. That is nonsense. I have been at the university, and I was a farmer's son. I left the farm twenty years ago this month and have been connected with schools ever since, and I have no notion that I was ever made fun of because I was a farmer's son, nor have I ever known of any such thing in schools among students. Among our students men stand just as they stand among men, according to their ability and their faithfulness in business, and I think that is the case among students everywhere. There is no notion that because a man comes from a farm he is to be sneered at; nothing of the kind. The only thing that I ever knew approaching it was, when I was in college, a tutor prayed for the strong boys from the country. One of the boys was made angry by the allusion, but I felt a little better for that tutor's prayer.