Investigation of Great Lakes Fisheries

The CHAIRMAN. We have met this morning to consider House Joint Resolution 424, authorizing an investigation of the fisheries and fishing industry of the Great Lakes by the United States Bureau of Fisheries. Without undertaking to read at length the provisions of this resolution, which will be incorporated in the record at this point, I desire to say that the report from the Bureau of Fisheries, Department of Commerce, has not yet been received. It is my information, however, that all of the duties herein sought to be conferred on the United States Bureau of Fisheries and the work sought to be done is now authorized by existing law. And as this committee is only a legislative committee, dealing with legislative functions, and could only authorize an appropriation, there would not seem to be strictly, under this resolution, anything that could be done. But I think the matter is an important one and ought to be heard.

I will say it will be necessary for me to leave the committee and possibly to adjourn shortly before 11, because I have to go before the Rules Committee on an application for a rule on the Panama Canal tolls bill, which they have set for 11 o'clock this morning. (The resolution is as follows:)

[H. J. Res. 424, 75th Cong., 1st sess.]

JOINT RESOLUTION Authorizing an investigation of the fisheries and fishing industry of the Great Lakes by the United States Bureau of Fisheries

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the United States Bureau of Fisheries is authorized and directed to conduct an investigation and survey of the fisheries and the fishing industry of the Great Lakes with a view to determining the condition and prospects of such fisheries and industry, their relation to and effects on the Nation's food supply, and the most appropriate methods of promoting and conserving such fisheries and protecting such industry in the public interest. The Bureau shall report, from time to time, to the Congress the results of its investigation and survey together with its recommendations for legislation or other action by the United States.

SEC. 2. For the purpose of carrying out this joint resolution the United States Bureau of Fisheries is authorized to cooperate with the States bordering on the Great Lakes, and with other public or private agencies, and, with the consent of any such State or agency, to utilize without cost to the United States any services or facilities made available by any such State or agency. Every officer or employee of the United States is authorized to supply the Bureau with such information relating to the investigation and survey authorized by this joint resolution

and contained in the records of the office of such officer or employee as the Bureau may request.

SEC. 3. There are hereby authorized to be appropriated such sums as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this joint resolution.

The CHAIRMAN (continuing). All right, Mr. Luecke, we will hear you. It seems to me the question is one of an appropriation and that you have to go before the Appropriations Committee and get your appropriation. There is already some work, as I will bring out this morning, that is being done up there and there was a Dr. Van Oosten, who was expected to be here but has not arrived, and Mr. Fiedler will tell us what is now being done on the Great Lakes.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN LUECKE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN

Mr. LUECKE. Mr. Chairman, my purpose in introducing this resolution was to get something started toward throwing the spotlight upon the conditions which now exist in the fishing industry on the Great Lakes.

I am quite aware of the fact the Bureau of Fisheries has this authority, but I was not certain whether or not they would feel disposed to come before Congress and show us what is happening, unless they had authority from Congress to do so.

The CHAIRMAN. Well they have that authority, of course, and, when they are given authority to do all this work, the only thing then, as I see it, is to take it up with the Department of Commerce and with the Bureau of Fisheries and try to get them to submit an estimate to the Secretary of Commerce and have that passed by the Bureau of the Budget, if you need more money than is now being provided, because we have been confronted before with a veto of resolutions we have passed, where the President contended there was already existing authority of law. But I think we desire to have the information on the Great Lakes situation and would be very glad to hear you.

Mr. LUECKE. That is really the purpose of this resolution, to get something started whereby coordinated control may result therefrom. It does not make any difference how it is done-whether it is by a resolution passed through Congress and an appropriation obtained in that way, or whether we could get it through the Budget in the regular manner. Perhaps that would be the best way to go about this thing; but, if I may, I would like to say a few words along the line of the proposal embodied in the resolution.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be delighted to have you do so.

Mr. LUECKE. When I was in the State senate back in Michigan, I first became acquainted with the fishing problem in the Great Lakes and, being a resident of the upper peninsula, representing a district which, perhaps, has more coast line than any other district in Congress, naturally I should be interested in the fishing problem.

Two years ago in the State senate, I looked into the condition which existed at that time and, of course, which only affected Michigan waters. I found that the fish in the Great Lakes were "on their way out" and that something constructive had to be done within a very short time to conserve the fish resources. It is not yet too late to do that; there is yet an abundant supply of the species which exist and if coordinated control could be had at this time, or in the very

near future, I think the fish supply could be made to last for a long time.

I saw the timber go up in the North. I can remember, only a few years back, in my boyhood days, when I could travel only 3 or 4 miles from home and be right in the midst of what you might call primeval forests. But now, in order to do that, you have to travel perhaps a hundred miles and then can only find a very small stretch of it. There was perhaps an excuse for such abuses of our natural resources as far as timber is concerned, for the simple reason the country was growing up and everyone was interested in making money.

The legislatures of the States did not seem to think it was an important problem; that these forest resources would last forever; but, before we knew it, we woke up one fine day and found out that the forests were gone. But now, as I see it, there is no excuse to let the fish go that way, also. The communities are established. This thing has been brought before public attention time and time again and surely it is difficult to find one person who would stand up and say we should allow this thing to go on-in other words, to let nature take its course among the fishermen up there until the supply is utterly exhausted.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you suggest? We cannot compel the States, of course, to enter into cooperation on this thing.

Mr. LUECKE. My suggestion, of course-I started out by introducing this resolution to draw attention to this fact, to throw light upon it. In 1928, in Michigan waters, there was introduced the socalled deep-trap net. That net, of course, is an improvement over the previous net which was used in the catching of whitefish—the pound net and the gill net. It so happened that this deep-trap net was so efficient and so destructive that, in 4 years' time, in Michigan waters, the supply of whitefish, or the production of whitefish, I should say, had fallen off from 4,840,139 pounds, in 1929, in Lake Michigan, to 768,042 pounds in 1936-about one-seventh of the amount that was caught previously-and that also, Mr. Chairman, in spite of the fact that in 1931 there were 17,588 nets in the water and, in 1935, there were 32,149 nets in the water, or just exactly twice as many. I have not the figures for 1936.

With the production falling off to one-seventh of what it was and with twice as many nets in the water, it only stands to reason that the supply of fish is very greatly reduced.

Not so long ago, I was talking to a friend of mine up home, a fisherman, and he made the statement to me that I have gotten a little ahead of my story. I should say the deep-trap nets in Lake Michigan waters were abolished 2 years ago, and in that short time this fisherman informed me that the whitefish has staged a comeback; because, in recent months, whereas a year or two ago they were not catching any in their nets, that now, after only a 2-year period of rest, they were beginning to find whitefish again in their nets, which shows that the fish will come back if you give them a chance. And it also shows how serious this thing was, due to the fact that, when these fishermen up there do get whitefish in their nets now, their attention is attracted to it. That is how serious the condition is up there.

If I may go on now and give you a little more statistics on just what the situation is up there, I wish to read from a report which I

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Investigation of Great Lakes Fisheries: Hearings... on H.J.Res.424