processes of millions of our young men and expose us to the dangers-unknown in America's history-of the growth of a military caste and the emergence of a military, authoritarian point of view in our civil affairs.

The post believes that so fundamental a change should not be made until the millions of our voters in the armed services overseas can have a chance to participate in the decision. We now have actually under arms and in service-and probably will continue to have for the next few years-many times the number of men that any training program could provide. We are completely safe in holding our decision in abeyance until we have the report of an impartial authoritative commission such as this post suggests.

If universal military training ever appears necessary, there will be ample time to begin it. Meanwhile, sound ideas of national defense point to other and more necessary fundamentals. Sound hope for peace, as well as solemn obligations to our men who have fought and died-demand that America give its utmost to building world security.

Chairman WOODRUM. Are there any questions, gentlemen?
Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Chairman WOODRUM. Mr. Andrews.

Mr. ANDREWS. Here is a thought about the statement-may I ask what the paid-up membership of the Willard Straight Post is? Mr. WISEMAN. As I remember the last figure, it was 74.

Mr. ANDREWS. Was this resolution passed by a majority or how? Mr. WISEMAN. It was adopted by a majority.

Mr. ANDREWs. All the 74, or what?

Mr. WISEMAN. The actual adoption was by a majority of the members at a particular meeting.

Mr. ANDREWS. How many members were at that particular meeting? Mr. WISEMAN. Thirty members were at the meeting and 25 voted in favor of the resolution and 5 against it. There were also 5 favorable votes by mail, after prior distribution, and since the distribution of the statement to the entire membership, there have been no protests except in the case of one member, as I stated.

Mr. ANDREWS. It was not a majority vote as to the entire membership, though?

Mr. WISEMAN. Not a formal majority vote, but it was distributed to the entire membership.

Mr. ANDREWS. I have one or two other questions.

Do you favor the extension of the Selective Service Act beyond the present provisions thereof?

Mr. WISEMAN. I would say that it would be the logical thing to do if we thought that we need it immediately to build and maintain a very large military force.

Now, by "military" I have been differentiating between the Army, Navy, and air arms, but I personally would far prefer to see the Selective Service Act continued for the time being than to have a complete change in national policy by the adoption of a military-training pro

gram.

Mr. ANDREWS. May I presume to ask-I don't believe you made the statement at the opening-what your service was in the last war? Mr. WISEMAN. I was in the Sanitary Corps myself.

Mr. ANDREWS. Overseas?

Mr. WISEMAN. No; I was not allowed overseas.
Mr. ANDREWS. What is your vocation today?
Mr. WISEMAN. I am a teacher of advertising.
Mr. ANDREWS. I have no further questions.
Chairman WoODRUM. Mr. Kearney?

Mr. KEARNEY. I wonder if the gentleman can tell me whether there are any other Legion posts on record as being against compulsory military training besides the Willard Straight Post?

Mr. WISMAN. There is only one I ever heard of definitely, and that is a post in Bowling Green, Ky. I have not seen the statement, but I understand that it is rather similar to ours-but I do not have a copy of it.

Mr. KEARNEY. That would be the only one that you know of?
Mr. WISEMAN. The only one I definitely know of.

Mr. KEARNEY. In listening to the gentleman's statement I may have slipped up on that portion of it, but was there any reference made in your statement to the future of the National Guard of the country? Does the Post believe that it should be retained or disbanded?

Mr. WISEMAN. We did not discuss that—as a matter of fact, it was not discussed.

Mr. KEARNEY. That is all.

Chairman WOODRUM. Mr. Allen.

Mr. ALLEN. Mr. Wiseman, I don't believe that anyone could question that President Roosevelt or President Truman, and the State Department, the Army and the Navy-the people of the United States that there is nothing more they want than a permanent peace. Mr. WISEMAN. That is right.

Mr. ALLEN. I think all have gone out of their way, probably done more than their share, to bring about what they hope to be a permanent

peace.

Now, if you believe that the State Department and the Army and the Navy-that they have reason to believe that we are not going to obtain this permanent peace, not likely at least to obtain it, unless at a great sacrifice in cost, would you still be opposed to this universal military training program?

Mr. WISEMAN. If they could prove it.

Unfortunately, nobody can prove anything about the future. That is the difficulty. In other words, we are working in the day, with supposition.

Now, it is undoubtedly true that the State Department, the Army, and the Navy, and the President know more about the details of the situation at the moment than the general public does, but as to whether or not they can make a clear-cut case for the fact that unless we have military training there can be no permanent peace

Mr. ALLEN. Well, I think it is generally admitted that the State Department and the Army and the Navy have done a splendid job in this world crisis.

Mr. WISEMAN. Excellent.

Mr. ALLEN. In the main, I would say that the job has been well done. Don't you believe that they are in a position, official position, where it behooves most of the Americans, knowing that, to follow their dictates?

73951-45-pt. 1- -10

Mr. WISEMAN. Well, sir, I think there is a considerable difference between any group that is carrying on a war, and a group which is preparing for a peace. I think the two are so completely and utterly different that they almost require different languages. I think you recall Prime Minister Churchill saying, at that time, that "the man who wins the war can't win the peace."

That may be a quip, I don't know, but what we are asking for in this statement is postponement of adoption of a new policy until a complete study by a nonmilitary and nonpolitical group can be made, and until the majority at least of the men in uniform now in services overseas can return to civilian life.

Mr. ALLEN. Well, now, Mr. Commander, what has brought about your decision in this matter? What information, as compared to the State Department, the Army, and the Navy, has brought about your belief, as it is?

The

Mr. WISEMAN. Well, we have considered the State Department and the Army and the Navy in making up our minds on the subject. Army very kindly assigned, officially, a representative to explain to us the plans of the Army in connection with universal military training.

We queried a number of other individuals whose judgment we respected. We have read a numerous amount of literature on the subject from all sides. We certainly have not confined ourselves to the opponents in the situation and I may say that with the philosophy of some of the opponents we violently disagree, but what we are looking for is an end decision, we don't want this thing done as if it were done in an emotional hurry, and its seems to us it is unnecessary, militarily certainly unnecessary at the moment, at the time being the only reason for the Army and Navy and the State Department have given for its immediate adoption is that if the decision is postponed it might not be adopted.

Mr. ALLEN. Did they say that?

Mr. WISEMAN. I have heard that said quite often. It has been in the public press, of course, time and time again as coming from-I am not certain that General Marshall said it, but it has come from official sources. It has been said by men of prominence in the service. Mr. ALLEN. Do you believe in the event that one or more other great powers start training their youth, I mean strong powers, that the United States should train theirs?

Mr. WISEMAN. I certainly think we ought to have a look.

Mr. ALLEN. What?

Mr. WISEMAN. I think we ought to have a look. I don't think it is necessary to follow the lead of another strong power if circumstances don't make us feel that that power is a potential danger to us.

Mr. ALIEN. That is all.

Chairman WOODRUM. Thank you very much, Mr. Wiseman.
Mr. WISEMAN. Thank you very much indeed.

Chairman WOCDRUM. Dr. Walter E. Hager, representing the American Association of Teachers Colleges.

Dr. HAGI R. That is right.

STATEMENT OF DR. WALTER E. HAGER, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF TEACHERS COLLEGES

Dr. HAGER. Mr. Chairman and members of this committee; I am president of Wilson Teachers College, Washington, D. C. I represent the American Association of Teachers Colleges. This is an association of 185 teacher-education institutions in the United States.

I shall read first the resolution adopted by the executive committee of the association in its meeting in February 1945:

Be it resolved, That the American Association of Teachers Colleges favors the postponing, until after the present war has ended and peace terms have been agreed upon, any final decision relative to the enactment of legislation providing for universal compulsory military training.

The association takes this position for the following reasons:

1. There is no need for haste. It is inconceivable that we shall face a military emergency within, say, 5 years following this war. 2. It is positively desirable to wait.

(a) It is generally understood that the proposed legislation to establish compulsory military training in peacetime is being pressed now because the people of the Nation are emotionally prepared to accept it; that it would undoubtedly be rejected if action is delayed until after the war. This is an admission of the weakness of the case. It emphasizes precisely the reason why we should wait and decide this tremendously important issue calmly and deliberately after the present emotional pressure is removed.

(b) Furthermore, if some leaders in our Government and in our armed forces fear that our relationships with any allied or neutral power are deteriorating, the adoption of compulsory military training now can only make those relationships worse. It would be far better to spend an equivalent amount of time, effort, and money in developing a better understanding of such a power and in improving our relationships with it. We are unwilling to admit that the best minds of our country cannot find a way to do this.

(c) We agree with the viewpoint expressed by others at this hearing, that if compulsory military training is ever adopted by this country it should be done only after most careful study and planning, not by the military leaders primarily but by leaders of many walks of our national life-representatives of professions, of labor, business, industry, agriculture, and of education. A matter of such importance which will affect so vitally the lives of all our people should be adopted only after study and planning by the best thinkers from all such groups. This will require time. It cannot be done adequately during the pressure of this war.

Gentlemen, we are convinced that there is no need for immediate adoption of compulsory military training; that to do so may be positively detrimental to our national and international welfare; and that if compulsory military training in peacetime ever becomes necessary, longer, careful study and planning by leaders of many walks of life is essential.

Thank you very much, sir.

Chairman WOODRUM. Thank you very much, Doctor.

Now, I have two statements by persons who were unable to appear today and will ask that they be copied into the record at this point. The statements are as follows:)

STATEMENT OF JOHN PURDY, CHAIRMAN OF OHIO COLLEGE COMMITTEE AGAINST CONSCRIPTION; ROBERT FORSBERG, PRESIDENT OF STUDENT BODY OF THE COLLEGE OF WOOSTER, WOOSTER, OHIO; AND MARY ANN BROWN, CHAIRMAN OF PUBLIC OPINION COMMITTEE OF WOOSTER COLLEGE

Mr. Chairman and members of the House Select Committee on Postwar Military Policy, as young people and college students, we wish to express the opinions of ourselves and of the groups we represent on the matter of peacetime universal military conscription. We express these views, not as experts, but as something of a reflection of youth and student opinion on conscription.

Born in the twenties, raised in the depression years of the thirties, and forced into sudden maturity by the war era of the forties, we have had certain facts thrust unavoidably upon us. The fact that ours is an age of internationalism— that what one nation does has vital effects upon nations everywhere; that war can no longer be a family quarrel between two member nations of the world community, but becomes immediately the concern and problem of all nations. From this all too apparent situation, we draw this simple and irrefutable conclusion--that the safety of each nation is dependent upon the safety of all, in a phrase, "collective security."

It is to collective security that our generation looks for protection against another or other world wars. We believe that the failure of collective security was largely responsible for this war. And we believe that a program of peacetime military training for the United States is a body blow to effective collective security in the future.

For this reason, that collective security depends entirely for its present effectiveness on one all too human commodity-trust, faith, call it what you will. Immediate prospects of collective security seem to imply a United Nations united chiefly by just this commodity, trust. There is no greater sign of distrust on our part in collective security, in international organization, in our allies, than a present program of peacetime military training. It is a sign of mlitary isolationism, which being translated means diplomatic and economic isolationism, isolationism is an interdependent world. We know that diplomatic and economic isolationism will not work. And we believe that military isolationism will not work either.

For this reason, and for many others, we are unalterably opposed to a program of peacetime military conscription.

(The following letter was submitted for the record at this point:)

THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF THE YOUNG MEN'S CHRISTIAN

ASSOCIATIONS

347 Madison Avenue, New York 17, N. Y.

Hon. CLIFTON A. WOODRUM,

STAMFORD, CONN., June 5, 1945.

Chairman, the Committee on Postwar Military Policy,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

DEAR MR. WOODRUM: It occurs to me that it may be of some use to your committee which is now conducting public hearings if I report discussion and correspondence among members of a committee on work with boys and a subcommittee on work with high-school youth of the national board of the Young Men's Christian Associations. Obviously, the opinions of these committees are not to be regarded as the opinions of either the Young Men's Christian Association or the national board. The twenty or more business and professional men here involved are, however, citizens who give careful thought and attention to the needs and problems of young people.

It is unanimously agreed that the enactment of legislation providing peacetime military conscription should be deferred until after the cessation of hostilities.