Mr. ELICKER. Yes, sir.

Chairman WOODRUM. Could you tell us something about how many were polled in that, and the result of that-briefly.

Mr. ELICKER. They were the officers of the State high school principals' association, and members of the State departments of education who were in charge of secondary education, from 6 to 10 in each State, or a total of from 400 to 450.

Chairman WOODRUM. What was the result of that poll, just generally speaking?

Mr. ELICKER. That poll was largely directed to the bill that was then introduced, or was before the Committee on Military Affairs in the Seventy-eighth Congress, and at that time a large number, and I can obtain at some later date the percentages, were in favor of compulsory military training, but they were not in favor of the provisions of that bill.

Chairman WOODRUM. But they were in favor of the over-all principles?

Mr. ELICKER. Yes, sir; of the over-all principles.

Chairman WOODRUM. Now, you have a membership of 7,700!
Mr. ELICKER. No, sir; it is 9,300.

Chairman WOODRUM. And you polled 7,700; is that right?
Mr. ELICKER. 7,700.

Chairman WOODRUM. That is correct?

Mr. ELICKER. Yes, sir.

Chairman WoODRUM. You sent the questionnaires to 7,700, and you cataloged 3,820?

Mr. ELICKER. 3,820 were cataloged.

Chairman WOODRUM. So, when you speak of 70 percent being in favor of not taking action on this until after the war, that means 70 percent of a little over 50 percent of the people to whom you sent the questionnaire?

Mr. ELICKER. Seventy percent of all the returns that were available at that time-February 15.

Chairman WOODRUM. That probably would represent between 25 and 30 percent of the membership-they expressed themselves as opposed to the immediate consideration of it?

Mr. ELICKER. I assume your mathematical calculations are correct, sir.

Chairman WoODRUM. I may not be exactly correct, but the other figures you gave indicated that 80 percent of those to whom-or 81 percent were not opposed to any form of compulsory military training, which would indicate the question was that they did not think now was the opportune time to do it.

Mr. ELICKER. Yes, sir.

Chairman WOODRUM. Would you say that would be the judgment, in substance, of your membership-that they are not opposed to compulsory military training but they do not think that now is the time to do it?

Mr. ELICKER. They are not opposed to the principle of this peacetime military training, expressed through the poll, but are opposed to any legislation at the present time.

Chairman WOORDUM. At this time.
Mr. ELICKER. At this time; yes, sir.

Chairman WOODRUM. Thank you very much, Doctor.

Mr. ELICKER. Thank you, sir.

Chairman WOODRUM. Rev. F. W. Burnham, of the Christian Church of Richmond, Va., is present.

We will be glad to hear from him at this time.

STATEMENT OF REV. F. W. BURNHAM, COMMISSION ON WORLD ORDER OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION OF DISCIPLES OF CHRIST (THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES OF AMERICA)

Reverend BURNHAM. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I come to present primarily a resolution which was adopted by the convention of our church, known as the Christian Churches of America or the Disciples of Christ.

The resolution was adopted at a session of the convention held in Columbus, Ohio, October 17-22, 1944, and as I recall, it was practically unanimously adopted.

I do not need to read the entire resolution, because the four items in it are along the lines of those that you have had before you heretofore. I will simply read the conclusion itself:

Therefore be it

Resolved, That this convention for the reasons above set forth, urges the Congress of the United States of America to pass no legislation providing for compulsory peacetime military training or national service until after the end of the present war.

That is the end of the resolution.

In this connection, Mr. Chairman, as a member of this body of Disciples of Christ, and at their suggestion, I want to add a few words here regarding two or three items which I have indicated on the sheet, which you have in your possession.

First, a word regarding the value of compulsory military training as over against the vocational guidance in our educational institutions.

In that respect, allow me to quote a paragraph from a recent address by the principal of Binford Junior High School, of our city, Richmond, Va.-Principal C. H. Spain, in which he says:

We are asked to believe that compulsory military training is going to develop character through discipline. Of all the claims made, this one, I think, misses the mark farthest. Military discipline is absolutely necessary for prosecuting a war; there is no substitute for it on the field of battle; but any juvenile court worker, or psychiatrist well knows that military discipline is not going to cure the evils of antisocial conduct already established in young delinquents. Sure military discipline will make him conform outwardly for a while to the demands of good behavior. The records of our Army and Navy, and of countries where conscription is practiced, leave us little ground for optimism regarding his continuing practice after the reins of authority have been released. You can no more compel character in a person than you can buy character in a person. Character comes through a process of self-discipline and self

control.

On the second point, as to the cost of postwar military training it has been estimated that the cost to the Nation will be from three to four billion dollars annually. Add that annual expense to our already staggering debt which, it is estimated, will approximate, if not exceed, $300,000,000,000-the annual interest on which will be

73951-45-pt. 1-15

around $7,500.000,000, and you have a total annual budget of $10,000,000,000 before any of the other functions of government have been provided. That would be an average of approximately $300 a day for every family in the United States, rich or poor.

We have been urging our people to buy War bonds, particularly the E bonds for employed people. Now we are urging them to buy and keep them. At the same time these good people have been assured that after the war they shall have good jobs at good pay and with thousands of dollars saved with which to purchase new homes, automobiles, and all the new gadgets the manufacturers are anxious to begin producing. Now, if the people turn in their bonds to get back their money from what source will the Government borrow to pay it? If the people cannot spend that money how shall the manufacturer employ laborers to produce unsalable goods? And if the manufacturer cannot operate his industry what happens to labor? And if the laborer cannot make a living what happens to the Government? I ask you, gentlemen, if it isn't about time to begin to think of governmental economy?

I figured up one day what three billions of dollars would be in silver coin-a dollar is an inch and a half in diameter, 8 to the foot, 64 to the square foot. Take $3,000,000,000 and figure out how many square feet would be involved in silver dollars, and I found that it would pave, it would surface a 60-foot highway, 15,000 miles longthree billions of silver dollars. That is to say, three billions of silver dollars would pave or surface five highways 60 feet wide across the United States.

There is a question as to whether there is that much silver in the world, coinable silver, so this additional budget of three or four billion dollars for military training is something that ought to have serious consideration before we enter into it.

Now, third, as to the Nation's reliance upon the services of the churches, I need only remind you that the Government has called upon the churches for support of every phase of our war effort— for the moral undergirding of our families in their sacrifices; the giving up of their sons and daughters; the supplying of chaplains for Army and Navy; for contributions to USO, Red Cross, and war community funds; for bond sales; for aid in hospitals; for blood donations; and for the sustaining of public morale generally.

I conclude with these words from the late President Franklin D. Roosevelt :

In these days of struggle which try every soul and every institution and every tradition, we are all in desperate need of a light which is not of men. May God grant that the church will not fail in providing that light in our present darkness. For if we lack spiritual guidance for our immediate problems and set our feet in consequence upon obscure ways, our children shall wander for long years in a moral wilderness.

It would seem that the voice of the churches ought to be given serious consideration.

And that is all they are asking for.

Chairman WoODRUM. Thank you very much, Reverend Burnham. Reverend BURNHAM. Thank you, sir, and gentlemen of the committee.

Chairman WOODRUM. Frederick J. Roy, national vice commander of the Catholic War Veterans' Association, is our next witness. Please proceed, Mr. Roy.

STATEMENT OF FREDERICK J. ROY, NATIONAL VICE COMMANDER, CATHOLIC WAR VETERANS' ASSOCIATION

Mr. Roy. Honorable chairman and distinguished members of this committee, my name is Frederick J. Roy; I am national first vice commander of the Catholic War Veterans, with headquarters in the Empire State Building, New York City.

First, I want to express the appreciation and gratitude of the Catholic War Veterans, Inc., for the splendid opportunity to appear before your honorable committee to express the views of the Catholic war veterans in respect to the matter of peacetime compulsory military training, which is also referred to as universal military training.

The Catholic War Veterans, Inc., is a young organization. Its members are Catholic veterans of all duly recognized wars or campaigns of the United States. We claim a potential membership of 6,000,000. We also claim that nearly 50 percent of the present service personnel is Catholic.

A practical illustration is indicated in an article written by the late Raymond Clapper and published after his tragic death in the South Pacific, in which article he indicated that on a certain aircraft carrier, which he visited, 60 percent of the crew of the 3,000 were Catholics.

It is to be clearly understood that the Catholic War Veterans, Inc., is not opposed to preparedness and adequate national defense. However, we believe that the means can be accomplished without the proposed drastic legislation.

We urge that there is no immediate necessity for this legislation now. We appreciate the fact that the urge to legislate now is actuated by patriotic fervor, but there is also an apparent spirit of vengeance. When a people is subject to forced sacrifices, restrictions, and regimentation, it is geared to an emotional state which is apt to ignore the most rational considerations.

For that reason, we urge that all final legislation be delayed until such time as sober thinking, directed solely to the best interests of a peaceful nation, concerned only with the rights of the future manhood of America, can write the program for the national defense and security of future generations.

The selective service will continue to function until the war is won. Therefore, there is no immediate necessity for passage of compulsory military training until after the war and until a peace treaty shall have been accomplished.

We sincerely believe that compulsory military training laws on the statute books for the first time in the history of this Nation would cause a cloud upon the peace deliberations.

Surely our sincerity would be questioned by our allies, and they too would feel obligated for their security to follow a military training program, thereby ultimately provoking conflict.

We wonder why all this agitation for such a drastic law-what nation of any appreciable size will threaten our Nation after this war? Certainly it cannot be defeated Germany nor Japan; certainly it could not be Great Britain, whom we twice crossed the Atlantic to aid in the last quarter of a century; then whom do we fear? What nation is prepared to give us battle?

Assuming we were no better prepared than in 1941, compulsory military training of youth for centuries was the foundation stone of

the kingdoms of Europe and which developed this arrogant system of dictatorships. Today our nation is fighting to destroy the tyranny of such regimes.

Are we to emulate their past by adopting their methods and regimentation as America's peacetime way of life?

We submit that under no circumstances should definite action be taken until the 10,000,000 or more representing the flower of American manhood now distributed on the far-flung battle front of the world return to their homes and are given opportunity to express themselves.

However, if it is deemed expedient or necessary to enact into law some provision for postwar security, we offer for consideration certain alternatives which we feel will provide a solution to the perplexing situation.

We approve of the principle of military training for male youth during their eighteenth year, in so far as such program is absolutely necessary to national defense and national security.

We recommend that military drill and tactics be part of the required curricula of all schools in the country in the high, college, and university classifications.

That all such schools in the college and university groups have ROTC or its equivalent as part of the school optional courses. These classes should be available to students showing the accomplishments of proper grades in military drill and tactics to qualify them for advanced training.

All military courses shall be conducted by officers of the Army or Navy assigned by their respective departments. All textbooks, uniforms, etc., and other material necessary to properly conduct the classes and prepare the students to satisfy the intention of this program, shall be supplied by the proper Government agency.

Proper arrangements shall be made by the Government to protect the health and well-being of all students participating in this program. In the case of students in the secondary schools, insurance should be supplied without premiums during the term of the course.

In addition to the above-outlined courses in military matters, all male youth on reaching his eighteenth birthday should be required to devote two successive 13-week vacation periods to active military training in a Government military installation. Each student shall receive compensation from the military unit or agency under which he is being trained, commensurate with the rank in the regular services to the capacity in which they are training.

That Government scholarships be made available and vocational and trade schools for the training of all specialist branches of the military and naval agencies.

These specialist courses to be available to all students electing to them after properly qualifying in the military training and tactics courses as prescribed for the high-school grade students.

That all specialized courses which are basically skilled trades or crafts, operated in civil life by regularly organized trade or craft unions with the apprentice system to attain full recognized skill, shall be directed by teachers recommended and recognized by the authorities in the regularly accredited union of such craft or trade.

All textbooks, laboratory equipment, materials, and other essential operating tools, and so forth, to be supplied by the Government, and