Tuesday,] CHAPIN-DELONG. [July 26. The question was taken and the amendment any appropriations be made out of the revenue arising was agreed to. The SECRETARY. The next amendment is in Section 16, to strike out the words to be fixed by law," and insert the word "which," so as to read: "The Legislature at its first session, and from time to time thereafter, shall provide by law that upon the institution of each civil action, or other proceeding, and also upon the perfecting of an appeal in any civil action or proceeding in the several courts of record in this State, a special court fee or tax, which shall be advanced to the clerks of said courts, respectively by the party or parties bringing such action, or taking such appeal," etc. The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. The SECRETARY. The Committee next recommend that Section 17 be amended by striking out the words "upwards of," before the words" ninety consecutive days," and inserting in lieu thereof the words more than," so that the section will read as follows: SEC. 17. The Legislature shall have no power to grant leave of absence to a judicial officer, and any such officer who shall absent himself from the State for more than ninety consecutive days, shall be deemed to have vacated his office. The question was taken, and the amendment vas agreed to. The SECRETARY. The last amendment is to strike out Section 18, as engrossed, and substitute a new section therefor. The section proposed to be stricken out reads as follows: SEC. 18. In order that no inconvenience may result to the public service from the taking effect of this Article, no judicial officer shall be superseded, nor shall the organization of the several courts be changed thereby, until the election and qualification of the sev eral officers provided for in the same. The new section proposed to be substituted therefor, reads as follows: SEC. 18. No judicial officer shall be superseded, nor shall the organization of the several courts of the Territory of Nevada be changed, until the election and qualification of the several officers provided for in this Article. from said tax, except in the following order, to wit: First-For paying interest upon the public debt. Second-For salaries of State officers. Third-For State Prison expenses. Fourth-For Educational purposes. Fifth-For Legislative and Miscellaneous expenses. Mr. DELONG. If the arrangement is to be made in the order of merit, the Legislature might possibly go before the State Prison; however, I do not know but it is all right. [Merriment.] [Mr. KINKEAD in the Chair.] Mr. CHAPIN. I move that the article be recommitted to a select committee of three, with instructions to amend by inserting that section, and to report the article immediately back to the Convention. I will briefly state my reasons for making the In the motion. They are mainly two-fold. first place, we are all of us aware of the very heavy expenditures which always attend the first organization of a State Government, and we desire, if possible, to save ourselves and our constituents the hundreds of thousands of dollars, that will be squandered, within the first three years, if we leave the subjects of taxation and appropriations open to the discretion of the Legislature. We shall need that money for other purposes, and we shall have abundant occasion to use it, and more than that, for noble purposes, after the expiration of the three years which are mentioned in the section I have proposed. Another reason for offering the amendment is this, that unless we can fortify the Constitution in such a manner that the people will be able to count up the cost of a State Government, it is not going to be adopted. For one, I set that down as a positively inevitable result, if we shall fail to protect the people from the unrestricted levying of taxes by the Legislature. Now, sir, for my own part, I desire very much to have Nevada come forth from this uncertain, infantile state that she is now in, from this kind of a tad-pole condition, if you please. Mr. DELONG. A pollywog condition. [Merriment.] Mr. CHAPIN. We have been in the condition of an underling long enough, and now I want to take a position which will command respect and honor. Let us take our place among men, and act like men-like good and true Union citizens of the United States, faithful to the glorious Union by which our country has been, and must continue to be preserved. I desire, therefore, to see this Constitution carried before the people, if it is a possible thing, and to accomplish that purpose is one of the main objects I have in view in offering this additional section. I trust that it may be adopted and incorporated in this article, for the two-fold purpose I have stated, and for many other reasons which might be enumerated. I will occupy no further time, however, at present. These two reasons are enough for my purpose, and I hope they will be sufficient to induce the Con Tuesday,] JOHNSON-DELONG-DUNNE-CHAPIN. vention to adopt the section. I have some figures prepared in relation to the subject, which I will present in due time, if there is occasion, but will not offer them now. Mr. JOHNSON. The gentleman had better present his figures now, as he has only five minutes time alloted him, and I intend to insist on a strict enforcement of the rule. Mr. DELONG. I would like very much to support this amendment, if the gentleman can show me that the amount of taxation therein specified will be sufficient to support the State Government. Mr. JOHNSON. And the propriety also of the designated order in which the money raised is to be expended. That, it occurs to me, is a more serious objection. Mr. DELONG. I do not know that I am much opposed to the order of payment prescribed. The interest on the public debt is the first item, I notice, and it should be. Then the salaries of the State officers, and I am in favor of giving the judges a chance for their compensation, at least. Then the next thing he puts the State Prison convicts ahead of the Legislature, and I approve of that. No, sir, I have no fault to find with the grading adopted. [Merriment.] Mr. JOHNSON. Could not the Legislature be classified with the convicts? [Laughter.] Mr. DELONG. Well, perhaps the convicts would not feel offended. The PRESIDENT pro tem. Perhaps some members may feel personally interested. Mr. DELONG. If the present occupant of the Chair has an interest, I will withdraw the objectionable part. But in all seriousness, Mr. President, I would like to be able to go on the stump and show that there can be no possibility of any exorbitant tax being levied by the Legislature, under any circumstances, for there is scarcely anything that would have so great an influence in favor of the Constitution; but, until I see the figures, I think we should be acting hastily to tie the hands of the Legislature, so as to prevent their raising any more money, no matter how pressing the exigency might be, or how great the expense of sustaining the State Government. I do not believe in transacting business under false pretences. Therefore, unless my colleague, or some one else, shall show me that this tax will be sufficient to pay the expenses of the State, I cannot vote for the amendment, whilst on the other hand, if that fact can be made apparent, I shall cheerfully give it my support. [July 26. is the estimated valuation of the Territory at present, will yield a revenue of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars; and deducting the usual amount of one-fourth for delinquencies and the cost of collection, you have left a net revenue of one hundred and eighty-seven thousand five hundred dollars. Now, in the second year, uuder the State organization, I think there can be no doubt that there will be not less than forty millions of taxable property, which will leave, after deducting the twentyfive per cent. for delinquencies and cost of collection, a net revenue from that source of three hundred thousand dollars. Then, even granting that there should be no further increase for the third year, and consequently no more revenue derived from that source, still you have an income of three hundred thousand dollars for the third year, and I will ask if any gentleman imagines that the expenses of our State government can possibly exceed the sum of three hundred thousand dollars a year? Mr. DELONG. I do. Mr. DUNNE. Very well; then even supposing that the State government uses up all that money, still it has a margin of three hundred thousand dollars, the amount to which it is at liberty to go into debt. That sum may be borrowed, and dividing it equally between the three years, it will give one hundred thousand dollars a year, in addition to the amouat to be raised by this tax. Now if the tax of one per cent. upon the taxable property of this State, with a margin of one hundred thousand dollars a year in addition, to go on, is not likely to be enough to support the State government, then indeed we should not adopt a State government. But with that estimate of the amount of the taxable property of the State, and with that margin of three hundred thousand dollars to go upon, to be divided between the three years, I think a tax of one per cent. will raise more revenue than it will be necessary to expend. And it will be remembered that we have to-day adopted an amendment which provides that the debt of the Territory is not to be included in the three hundred thousand dollars-the maximum amount of indebtedness which the State is authorized to incur-but that the State is allowed to contract an indebtedness of three hundred thousand dollars outside of and beyond the Territorial debt. I repeat that if there is any danger that the expenses of the State are going to amount to more than the revenue to be derived from a tax of one per cent., and one hundred thousand dollars a year in addition, then we cannot stand a State government. Mr. DUNNE. I think I can satisfy the gentleman that a tax of one per cent. on all the taxable property of the State of Nevada, if it Mr. CHAPIN. I will now, by leave of the is to be a State, taken in conjunction with the Convention, submit my figures; but first I other provisions of the Constitution, will fur-will take the liberty of alluding briefly to the nish ample means for carrying on the government of the State from year to year. Mr. DELONG. I hope so. Mr. DUNNE. It will be observed that a tax of one per cent. on twenty-five millions, which figures of my friend from Humboldt (Mr. Dunne.) I estimate the taxable property of the State at more than he does. I believe the proceeds of the mines alone will amount to twenty millions, but we will call that item fifteen millions, if you please, and then we have a total basis of taxation of forty millions of dollars. Mr. JOHNSON. How does the gentleman suppose the tax on the proceeds of the mines will be raised? Will it be levied on the net or on the gross proceeds? Mr. CHAPIN. On the gross proceeds, sir. Mr. JOHNSON. But the gentleman was unwilling to vote for the taxation of the gross proceeds. LEGISLATIVE EXPENSES. Legislative per diem, 54 members, 90 [July 26. .$ 38,880 Pay of Sergeant-at-Arms, porters, pages, etc... Total Legislative expenses.. 2,500 1,500 $45,380 Aggregate expense of State government . $192,680 Mr. CHAPIN. I believe, nevertheless, that. These are the figures, and all I have to say it will be the gross proceeds of the mines that will be taxed. Mr. JOHNSON. Did not the gentleman vote against incorporating the word "gross" in the article on Taxation? Mr. CHAPIN. I was willing to leave it to the Legislature. But, sir, it is my idea that the tax should be levied on the gross proceeds, and will be. Mr. WARWICK. Why should the gentleman from Storey base his estimate upon only forty millions, when it is well known that we have more than that amount in the gross pro ceeds of the mines alone? is that the aggregate amount is $42,680 more than the gentleman from Ormsby (Mr. Johnson) could possibly figure up in the Convention of last year, for the estimate made at that time was $150,000. Mr. JOHNSON. My recollection is entirely different in regard to that. According to my remembrance, the estimate then made was over two hundred thousand dollars, and we allowed a margin of twenty-five per cent. upon that sum. Mr. CHAPIN. Well, I think this estimate may possibly be a little too low in some of the items. We shall not differ a great deal, howMr. CHAPIN. I make allowance for leak-ever, and even if we set the aggregate amount ages. I hope these interruptions by various as high as two hundred thousand dollars, if gentlemen will not be taken out of my time. I you please, still we have a margin left of a say we have a total valuation, including the hundred thousand dollars, for incidentals and proceeds of the mines, of forty millions of dol- miscellaneous expenses-the various matters lars, and a tax of one per cent. upon that will which cannot be brought into an estimate of yield four hundred thousand dollars. Then if this kind. I ask if that is not margin enough you deduct one-fourth for delinquencies and the expense of collection, you still have a net revenue of three hundred thousand dollars a year, from the very commencement of our existence as a State. Now what are going to be the expenses of our State government? Here are my figures: for us to allow, when we are embarking on this new and untried ocean of the experiment of a State government? I think it is, and I hope we shall decide so to limit the expenses of the new State government, that the people can sit down and calculate for themselves how much and how little of a burden they are called upon to bear. Mr. JOHNSON. No person would rejoice more than I, if it shall be found that one per cent., or any other limited amount of taxation within the bounds of reason, will prove sufficient to carry on our State Government as it should be conducted. And the less the rate of taxation the better satisfied would I be, as I have a little property on which I am now called upon, from time to time, and expect to be hereafter, to pay my proportion of taxes. But, sir, these matters of figures and calculations, I think, are generally designed to mislead men, in the consideration of subjects of this character. And there is one item of importance which the gentleman from Storey certainly did not take into account in preparing his figures. He speaks of the interest on the public debt, but not of the principal. This item of iterest on the present public debt, of $34,500 a year, presupposes a principal sum, and we cannot well manage without paying that principal at some future time. Mr. CHAPIN. We can try to manage for the first three years, till we become a little $105,000 more prosperous. Tuesday,] JOHNSON-CHAPIN. [July 26. provide for the payment of that indebtedness, the principal as well as the interest, I say it goes forth to the world as a violation of the plighted honor, not only of the Territory but of the State, in which every member of this Convention is directly involved. Mr. JOHNSON. Then we will have to re- vada, so far as it can be done by the mempudiate the public debt, already voted by the bers of this Convention, who have already people of Nevada. Now there is an outstand- voted that the State shall assume the indebteding indebtedness, independent of the old bond-ness of the Territory. If, therefore, we do not ed debt of the Territory, which amounts to an average, taking the several items. principal and interest together, of about $83,333 33 a year, for the next four and half years, which must be paid by the people of this State, whilst the bonded indebtedness created under the Act of the last session of the Legislature will reach the amount of $150,000, with interest at one and one half per cent. per month, payable semiannually, and the principal to be paid at the end of the year. Upon the old issues of Territorial bonds running for periods ranging from one to five years, the State will have to discharge the principal and interest as they fall due, and the amount of principal coming due increases each year for the next five years, ranging from $47,000 to about $60,000 a year. The total amount of principal and interest on those bonds is $249,000, which must be paid in five years from the first day of February last. All these payments Mr. JOHNSON. I admit it, but the gentlemust be provided for out of the revenues of the next four years, the aggregate amount of such payments being $249,000, principal and interest, and I repeat that my friend from Storey has erred in not making calculation for the payment of this indebtedness from year to year. Mr. CHAPIN. Allow me to state that I made up these figures Mr. CHAPIN. Does not the gentleman from Ormsby consider that the provision which is made in the Constitution for the issuing of the bonds of the State, to the amount of three hundred thousand dollars, will be amply sufficient to meet all these demands? I confess that I did not take into account the payment of the principal of the Territorial debt, because while we assume all the debts of the Territory we at the same time adopt a provision anthorizing the State to issue its bonds to the amount of three hundred thousand dollars, and that I think should be ample to meet the Territorial indebtedness, and a good many other demands. man has claimed the benefit of that one hundred thousand dollars a year, as a margin for miscellaneous and contingent expenses of the State Government. I deny that he has a right to call it an appropriation for the payment of the principal of the Territorial indebtedness, or any part of it, if he also claims it as a part of the fund for carrying on the State GovernMr. JOHNSON. The gentleman will excuse ment. It will not meet that and the bonded me; I am not through yet. There is another indebtedness of the Territory also; hence if item which I had overlooked, of $80,000 for the one proposition is correct the other canthe State Prison bonds. Those bonds bear in- not be. Consequently, if he admits that the terest at ten per cent. per annum. and conse-State assumes the payment of these Territorial quently the interest on them amounts to $8,000 obligations to the amount of $83.000 or $85.000 a year. a year for the next four years and a half, then he must make that addition to his estimates, and therefore it is shown that his estimates fall Mr. JOHNSON. Well, then the principal is short something like a hundred thousand dol$60,000, and the interest $6,000 a year. Then lars a year. If the gentleman includes the of the old bonded indebtedness there are $15,- three hundred thousand dollars which the State 000 bearing interest also at ten per cent. The average amount to be paid each year for the next four years and a half from the present time, is, as I have stated, $83,333 33, independent of the old bonded indebtedness of $15,000, which to that extent will increase the amount. The PRESIDENT pro tem. Of that indebtedness $5,000 become due in February next, and $10,000 one year thereafter. The PRESIDENT pro tem. A portion of those bonds, amounting to $20,000, has been paid. Mr. JOHNSON. Then that increases the average, so that it must be not less than $85,000 a year that the State will have to pay during the next four years and a half, on account of the present indebtedness of the Territory. These are matters which the gentleman from Storey had doubtless forgotten when he made his estimates. He allows only for the payment of the interest on the public debt, but here is the principal, for the payment of which not only is the faith of the Territory of Nevada plighted, but also the faith of the proposed State of Ne is authorized to borrow for the payment of the principal and interest of the bonded indebtedness of the Territory, it must be considered for that purpose in these estimates, so that the amount of this Territorial debt must be added to the summary of figures which he has presented. But, sir, if time, and the patience of the Convention allowed, I might proceed further in reviewing the gentleman's figures in regard to the various items of expenditure. For instance, be has allowed but $2,500 a year for the payment of clerks of the Legislature, one session of which, during the three years, will be for ninety days, and then two sessions of sixty days each. Why, sir, any man who ever had a seat on the floor of a legislative body, or who is at all cognizant of the amount of the labors devolving upon the clerical force of such a body, will at once be satisfied that such a sum is altogether insufficient. It would amount to not more than Tuesday,] JOHNSON-COLLINS-KENNEDY-CHAPIN-BANKS-MCCLINTON-MURDOCK. Time! [July 26. enough to pay the salary of the chief secretary importance and necessity of it; and he has or clerk of each branch, and one clerk in addi- offered this proposition believing it will have a tion. tendency to strengthen the Constitution before A MEMBER. the people, but I fear without reflecting with Mr. JOHNSON. Time is called upon me, sufficient care and minuteness upon all its imand I do not propose to exceed the limit estab-portant bearings. lished by rule of the Convention. Mr. COLLINS. I think the gentleman has spoken twice. Mr. JOHNSON. Only once upon the proposition in its present shape. However, I hope no other gentleman will be allowed to exceed his allotted time. Mr. KENNEDY. I move to amend the section proposed by the gentleman from Storey (Mr. Chapin), by adding the following: "Provided, The Legislature may levy a special tax not exceeding one-fourth of one per cent. per annum, which shall be appropriated to the payment of the indebtedness of the Territory of Nevada, assumed by the State of Nevada, and for that purpose only, until all of said indebtedness is paid." Mr. CHAPIN. I will accept the amendment. Mr. JOHNSON. I suppose I may have the privilege of speaking to this amendment. Mr. BANKS. This is a matter involving a good many figures and facts, with which I confess I am not familiar, and I think that is the position of a great many other members. I will therefore ask as a special favor that gentlemen who are familiar with the subject, as the gentleman from Ormsby (Mr. Johnson) appears to be, shall not be prevented by the enforcement of the rule, from speaking longer than five minutes. Mr. JOHNSON. There is only this objection, that we are now, we hope, near the close of the session, and if such privilege be extended to one member, it must be to others, because it it would be unfair to discriminate; and if every member is allowed to speak as long as he chooses we shall never get through. Mr. McCLINTON. Iam very much opposed to extending the time to any member, unless we give all the same chance. Though I should like exceedingly to hear the gentleman from Ormsby, and other gentlemen who have spoken, explain their views more fully, yet there are others who may understand the subject nearly as well, and who perhaps would also like to be heard. Mr. MURDOCK. The gentleman from Ormsby can have five minutes of my time. Mr. JOHNSON. I am entitled to five minutes, I believe, on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lyon (Mr. Kennedy). I do not wish to consume the time of the Convention unnecessarily, but I do conceive that this is an exceedingly important matter, and I fear that gentlemen have not given it proper attention, especially those who seem to favor the proposition of the gentleman from Storey (Mr. Chapin). I know the motives of that gentleman are all proper. of course. He is very desirous of having a State Government; he feels the Now, sir, as was said by another gentleman from Storey, (Mr. DeLong,) I do not desire to have a Constitution thrust upon the people of the State of Nevada under false pretences. I do not feel like going before the people of the State and saying, because forsooth the Constitution declares they cannot be taxed more than one per cent., therefore they will not be, and cannot be, under any circumstances. But there is another and more important matter to be considered, namely, the honor of the State, its plighted faith and credit. A State ought never to be placed in a position where it will even be possible that the consequences of practical repudiation of the indebtedness of that State may follow. For this reason, if for nought else, I am opposed to adopting the proposed restriction. Gentlemen who have spoken upon this and kindred subjects heretofore, have declared their willingness to confide in their respective delegations in the Legislature. Now are they not willing, when, by the numerous restrictions and limitations which we have heretofore adopted, those who may be delegated to represent us in the Legislature are bound, as it were hand and foot, in respect to the expenditure of moneyalthough not more so than is needful, in my judgment—are they not willing to trust them, under such stringent provisions as we have adopted, to vote the appropriations to raise by taxation, and to expend whatever amounts may be necessary to administer the affairs of the State in an economical manner? I have no greater interest than others, and none less, in securing an economical administration of the State government, and as evidencing my views upon that question, it is quite enough to advert to the votes which have been cast in the Convention upon the various questions affecting the matter. It is true that sometimes I have exceeded other gentlemen in my ideas of liberality respecting what should be regarded as the proper compensation of certain public servants, but it was only because I believed it would be for the benefit of the State to bestow upon those officers an amount of compensation sufficiently liberal to secure the services of competent men, rather than to establish salaries at so low a figure that none but incompetent persons would accept such positions. In other words, my judgment as to the extent of the compensation which should be allowed for certain public services has been variant from that of other members; but on the whole, I think that the record of my votes will compare favorably with that of any other member, on the general proposition that our State government shall be administered upon the most economical basis that may be found practicable. |