ill find, on looking through the Digest, if you care to do so, that e deal with perhaps 20 subjects already. Some of the subjects re covered by standing committees of the association. That indiates the nature of the things that we have been interested in.

Senator THOMAS. One more word by way of advice, and that is to r. Sargent. I would like to have you give your own opinion, Mr. argent. In answer to a question of Senator La Follette just a oment or two ago, you said your opinion would not be of any worth to the committee. It would be of tremendously great worth o the committee, because we are attempting to gain information for he purpose of being helpful in legislation. I do not know of anyody who would be a better expert than you.

Mr. SARGENT. I appreciate the compliment, Senator, but I am sure ou appreciate that any opinion I might express on matters where he association, as such, had none might tend to give the impression hat the association had such an opinion, and whether the opinion as right or wrong would be an unjust inference, and I do not elieve it should go in the record, Senator, if you will pardon me. Senator THOMAS. You can say "off the record" and give your own pinion. That would solve it.

Mr. SARGENT. I shall be glad to confer with you at any time, Sentor, and talk to you about that.

Senator THOMAS. But there is nothing in our minds, I am sure, hat would follow through a sort of an artificial formula that an rtist and his work cannot be separated.

Mr. SARGENT. I appreciate that.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS "LABOR CLINICS"

Senator LA FOLLETTE. As a matter of fact, did the outcome of he Ilion strike, and the activities of the community organizations onvince you that it would be a good thing to encourage this sentient elsewhere?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. You mean inferentially? Pardon me.

Mr. SARGENT. We never had any discussion on that, Senator. Senator LA FOLLETTE. I offer for the record an extract from the inutes of the association dated March 19, 1937.

(The document was marked "Exhibit 3864" and appears in the ppendix on pp. 8016-8018.)

Senator LA FOLLETTE. It reads as follows:

Labor Relations: Moved by Mr. Warner, seconded by Mr. Harte, and carried hat the following executive committee recommendations on the subject of labor elations be approved.

1. That we continue to gather and disseminate factual information including he social and economic implications involved in the present labor controversies, which activities should include the encouragement and promotion of local and egional meetings, particularly for the purpose of stimulating the realization f the need of law enforcement and order.

I note that that excerpt says that you should continue the ctivities which included promotion of local and regional meetings o stimulate the realization of the need of law enforcement and order. That is about the same language that you used in describing the acvities at Ilion in the July 20, 1936, bulletin,1 is it not?

1 Exhibit 3860. See pp. 7924-7947.

Senator THOMAS. That is, you receive their bulletins and you serd yours?

Mr. GALL. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. How long has this been going on?

Mr. GALL. This particular publication only started in November, so that there they have only about four issues, but prior to that tine our legal department had carried on some similar work, and frot. time to time its opinions on and an analytical digest of legislatio and litigation were published as supplements or as parts of regular publications of the issue. Sometimes they went out as law department bulletins, and a number of those have been supplied to this committee.

Senator THOMAS. You have here an opportunity of making tha whole country a unit, at least, as far as consciousness about law is concerned, have you not?

Mr. GALL. This is purely information service, Senator Thomas. not with the idea of suggesting any course of action to any one. Senator THOMAS. No, but the information goes out.

Mr. GALL. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. And, of course, it would be absentee information would it not?

Mr. GALL. In the sense that any publication would be, yes.

Senator THOMAS. Surely. There would be back of it the idea of unifying the industry. For instance, if up in Massachusetts you had a case which would be of value to an industrialist in California, the aim would be to give the industrialist in California all the information concerning the Massachusetts case, would it not?

Mr. GALL. Yes, sir; but we do not describe pending cases, or undecided cases, we only analyze court decisions, so that whatever persuasive value they have in other jurisdictions, they would have, of course.

Senator THOMAS. You do assume that Digest is helpful to your members?

Mr. GALL. We have many letters that indicate that, Senator. Senator THOMAS. And the ability to unify the country is there. is it not?

Mr. GALL. Yes. I might also say, Senator, we have a number of letters from law schools. We received one from Duke University about a week ago, which I would like to show you, if you are interested.

Senator THOMAS. Do you have the same method of sending this Digest to the law school that you have in sending the elementary course to the schools in the country?

Mr. GALL. Our method of sending the Digest to law schools is this. that we wanted to be on the exchange mailing list with them, becau we are trying to deal with many more subjects than we have in the past. We wanted the best thought we could get. We are trying to get their views, so we can reflect in our Digest the treatment of various subjects and not specialize in any particular subject. You

ill find, on looking through the Digest, if you care to do so, that e deal with perhaps 20 subjects already. Some of the subjects re covered by standing committees of the association. That indiates the nature of the things that we have been interested in.

Senator THOMAS. One more word by way of advice, and that is to r. Sargent. I would like to have you give your own opinion, Mr. argent. In answer to a question of Senator La Follette just a oment or two ago, you said your opinion would not be of any worth to the committee. It would be of tremendously great worth o the committee, because we are attempting to gain information for he purpose of being helpful in legislation. I do not know of anyody who would be a better expert than you.

Mr. SARGENT. I appreciate the compliment, Senator, but I am sure ou appreciate that any opinion I might express on matters where he association, as such, had none might tend to give the impression hat the association had such an opinion, and whether the opinion as right or wrong would be an unjust inference, and I do not elieve it should go in the record, Senator, if you will pardon me. Senator THOMAS. You can say "off the record" and give your own pinion. That would solve it.

Mr. SARGENT. I shall be glad to confer with you at any time, Sentor, and talk to you about that.

Senator THOMAS. But there is nothing in our minds, I am sure, hat would follow through a sort of an artificial formula that an rtist and his work cannot be separated. Mr. SARGENT. I appreciate that.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS "LABOR CLINICS"

Senator LA FOLLETTE. As a matter of fact, did the outcome of The Ilion strike, and the activities of the community organizations onvince you that it would be a good thing to encourage this sentiment elsewhere?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. You mean inferentially? Pardon me.

Mr. SARGENT. We never had any discussion on that, Senator.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I offer for the record an extract from the inutes of the association dated March 19, 1937.

(The document was marked "Exhibit 3864" and appears in the ppendix on pp. 8016-8018.)

Senator LA FOLLETTE. It reads as follows:

Labor Relations: Moved by Mr. Warner, seconded by Mr. Harte, and carried hat the following executive committee recommendations on the subject of labor elations be approved.

1. That we continue to gather and disseminate factual information including he social and economic implications involved in the present labor controversies, which activities should include the encouragement and promotion of local and egional meetings, particularly for the purpose of stimulating the realization f the need of law enforcement and order.

I note that that excerpt says that you should continue the ctivities which included promotion of local and regional meetings o stimulate the realization of the need of law enforcement and order. That is about the same language that you used in describing the acivities at Ilion in the July 20, 1936, bulletin,1 is it not?

1 Exhibit 3860. See pp. 7924-7947.

try to promote the types of effort as recited at Ilion, the vigilante. maintaining the association has never been a part, but helping to promote, the latter part of No. 1. The first part, the Labor Relations Bulletin, do you remember that was about the time, or the tail end of the time, of the sit-down difficulties in which the question of law enforcement was a considerable question in this country, and in some of our articles in the Labor Relations Bulletin we did carry informative material as to the experiences over the country with respect to

that.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. Now, the so-called community program was not completed until along in the spring of 1937, was it?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. Will you read that?

(The question was read by the reporter.)

Mr. WEISENBURGER. That is correct, Senator.

COMMUNITY PROGRAMS 1

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I offer for the record a form letter signed by Robert L. Lund,2 chairman of the public relations committee, date! April 13, 1937.

(The document was marked "Exhibit 3865" and appears in the appendix on pp. 8018-8019.)

Senator LA FOLLETTE (reading):

I am enclosing for your information a survey made of the future possibilities of our public information service dealing particularly in the field of distribution Also attached is an outline for the creation of community programs through which the distribution of material might be considerably broadened.

Can you tell me to whom this letter was sent?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. May I have just a minute to locate my folder on this exhibit, Senator?

Senator LA FOLLETTE. Yes.

(A short interruption.)

Senator LA FOLLETTE. In all probability, from the context of the letter, it went to the members of the public relations committee, did it not?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. That is what it seems to be. We cannot answer positively.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. So far as you know, it was not sent to anyone else?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. No. I think that probably accompanied some action or some program from the public relations committee.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I offer for the record the accompanying memorandum. It is entitled "Memorandum on community publi information programs to combat radical tendencies and present the constructive story of industry." The entire exhibit may be printed in the record.

(The document was marked "Exhibit 3866" and appears in the appendix on pp. 8019-8021.)

1 See testimony of Charles P. Williamson on Saturday, March 19, 1938, appearing in pt. 19. 2 Testimony of Robert L. Lund appears in pt. 17 on pp. 7404 ff.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I will read the first

page:

Now, more than ever before, strikes are being won or lost in the newspapers and over the radio. The swing of public opinion has always been a major factor in labor disputes, but with the settlement of strikes being thrown more and more into the laps of public officials, the question of public opinion becomes of greater importance. For it is public opinion-what the voters think-that moves those elected to action along one course or another.

The extent to which public opinion has swung against the sit-down technique is plainly gauged by the willingness of public officials recently to take a stand against it. It would not have been believed possible three months ago to get 36 members of the United States Senate to cast a public vote against organized labor as they did on the Byrnes anti-sit-down resolution. That this should come in one week concurrently with the sanction by the House Rules Committee of a resolution to investigate the labor movement is a tribute to the powerful influence that John L. Lewis has had upon public opinion since January 1. Someone heard from back home as the stimulus for these votes in the Senate and House.

Industry cannot be content, however, with negative victories won through the tactical errors of the leaders of discontent. Machinery should be set up in every community to cope with the issue of unscrupulous unionism and radicalism, both in its immediate aspects and long-range potentialities.

Then I read from the first paragraph of page 2:

Municipal better understanding program.

This outline is not given as an outline for an emergency publicity campaign in which specific companies are involved in acute labor difficulties, it is designed as a continuing, long-range community program, designed to promote better understanding between all the sources in a city responsible for its progress and prosperity.

This is the memorandum, is it not, for the record that accompanied Mr. Lund's letter which was just introduced?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. Yes.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. What follows the matter that I read there is detailed outline of all the steps required, or at least a great many of them, to set up the community program suggested in the main portion, the first portion of the memorandum, is it not?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. I think, Senator, the whole import of the community program is best described in the statement of it that was supplied to the committee and in reading the letter through which we offered it.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I just thought I could avoid reading all of this. It does try to outline some of the steps which would be undertaken in a community program, does it not, in a general way? Mr. WEISENBURGER. That is right.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I am not trying to pin you down.

Mr. WEISENBURGER. That is right, sir.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. Is it not a fair interpretation of this memorandum that the major objective of the community public information program, as it was described in this particular document, had the labor situation in the communities in mind?

Mr. WEISENBURGER. No; I would say only as a better understanding of all of the factors involved would involve your question.

1 See pp. 7763 ff.