of the social duties and functions of self

government."

со рабо

One hundred and forty years later the political leader who in his generation professed to be Jefferson's most loyal disciple, asked whether, if it is wrong to compel people to support a creed they disbelieve, it is not also wrong to compel them to support teaching which impugs f the creed in which they do believe. Jefferson had insisted that the people should not have to pay for the teaching of Anglicanism. Mr. Bryan asked why they should be made to pay for the teaching of agnosticism.

4. DIALOGUE ON OLYMPUS

This was, I believe, a momentous question which we have been too busy to debate. But perhaps by this time, Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Bryan have met on Olympus where there is plenty of time. If they have, let us hope that Socrates is present.

SOCRATES: I have been reading your tombstone, Mr. Jefferson, and I see that you are the author of the Declaration of Independence, the Statute for Religious Freedom, and that you are the Father of the University of Virginia. You do not mention more worldly honors. It

1

is evident that your passion was for liberty and for learning.

JEFFERSON: It was. I had, as I once said to Dr. Rush, sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

SOCRATES: And this I believe is Mr. Bryan, three times the chosen leader of the party which you founded.

JEFFERSON: In a manner of speaking, yes.
SOCRATES: A disciple of yours?

JEFFERSON: You, too, had disciples, I

believe.

SOCRATES: Yes, more than I care to remember. They often quarrelled. I shall not go further into that.

JEFFERSON: You were always kind. SOCRATES: We shall see. I shall ask you a few questions.

BRYAN: Mr. Jefferson can answer them all. JEFFERSON: I'm not so sure.

BRYAN: A good conscience can answer any question.

SOCRATES: I'm afraid then that I never had a good conscience.

BRYAN: It was good considering that you were a foreigner and a heathen.

SOCRATES: You, too, were accused of being

a heathen. Were you not, Mr. Jefferson, accused of being an enemy of religion?

BRYAN (interrupting): That is a foolish question. You may not know it, Mr. Socrates, but he was twice President of the United States. JEFFERSON: I was denounced as an atheist by many good people.

SOCRATES: Were you an atheist?

JEFFERSON: No, but I disestablished the church in Virginia.

SOCRATES: On what theory?

JEFFERSON: I reflected that the earth was inhabited by a thousand million of people, that these professed probably a thousand different systems of religion; that ours was but one of that thousand; that if there were but one right, and ours that one, we should wish to see the nine hundred and ninety-nine sects gathered into the fold of truth. But against such a majority we could not effect this by force. I said to myself that reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged; and how could we wish others to indulge it while we refused it ourselves?

SOCRATES: Had not every state in your day established some religion?

JEFFERSON: That is true. I replied, with

some exaggeration I admit, that no two had established the same religion. Was this, I asked, a proof of the infallibility of establishment?

SOCRATES: So you disestablished the church. BRYAN: He did, sir, and thus proved his sterling Americanism.

SOCRATES: You also, Mr. Bryan, believe in the complete separation of church and state? BRYAN: I do, sir, most certainly. It is fundamental.

SOCRATES: Can it be done? . . . You look surprised. I was merely wondering.

BRYAN: It has been done in America.

SOCRATES: I won't argue with you about that. I should like to ask Mr. Jefferson some more questions. For example: the church which you disestablished had a creed as to how the world originated, how it is governed, and what men must do to be saved? Had it not? JEFFERSON: It had.

SOCRATES: And according to the church this creed was a revelation from God. In refusing to pay taxes in support of the teaching of this creed, you asserted, I suppose, that this creed was not revealed by God?

JEFFERSON: Not exactly. I argued that the validity of this creed was a matter for each

individual to determine in accordance with his own conscience.

SOCRATES: But all these individuals acting as citizens of the state were to assume, I take it, that God had not revealed the nature of the universe to man.

JEFFERSON: They were free as private individuals to believe what they liked to believe about that.

SOCRATES: But as citizens they could not believe what they liked?

JEFFERSON: They could not make their private beliefs the official beliefs of the state. SOCRATES: What then were the official beliefs of the state?

JEFFERSON: There were none. We believed in free inquiry and letting reason prevail.

SOCRATES: I don't understand you. You say there were many people in your day who believed that God had revealed the truth about the universe. You then tell me that officially your citizens had to believe that human reason and not divine revelation was the source of truth, and yet you say your state had no official beliefs. It seems to me it had a very definite belief, a belief which contradicts utterly the belief of my friend St. Augustine for example. Let us be frank. Did you not overthrow a state