made by Mr. ROBERTSON, of Kentucky, on the 6th and 9th of February, on the motion to appropriate eighteen thousand dollars for an outfit and salary for a Minister to South America.]

I regret (said Mr. ROBERTSON) the necessity which impels me to a participation in this discussion. While my feelings strongly incline me to silence, my judgment commands me, in self-justification, to obtrude on your patience a brief explanation of the reasons which influence my vote. If I could support the motion, I would be content with a silent affirmative; but, feeling it my duty to oppose it, it is proper, and perhaps necessary, that I should vindicate myself, lest some persons, recollecting the vote which I gave last Winter on the South American resolution, and, not understanding the intent and import of that vote, and the operation of that which I am now required to give, might charge me with inconsistency-with dereliction of principle, or the influence of motives inconsistent with the character which, if I have earned, I am unwilling to lose.

FEBRUARY, 1821.

eration and construction. And this is confirmed, not only by the nature of the proposition, but by some traits of the eloquent speech just concluded by my colleague (Mr. CLAY) in support of his motion. The only feature which I shall now take notice of, is his declaration, that "the resolution of last session was an expression of public sentiment which no monarch in Europe would ever have dared to disregard."

This indicates that he is surprised that the resolution did not induce the President to recognise the Patriots, and that he intends, by this motion, (if adopted,) to urge him still more persuasively to do what he is unwilling to do. This would be a reasonable inference from the remark. Yet I hope such a construction was not intended; because it argues a spirit of dictation and unconstitutional coercion; and I am sure that such a sentiment was not only not expressed last Winter, but was disavowed; and I am equally sure that, if it had not been disavowed, the resolution could not have been adopted. The tone of the speech made Whatever my conduct on the subject might (if at the last session, in favor of the resolution, by its unexplained) indicate, to those who do not under- mover, was materially different from that which stand the real character of the resolution of last characterizes the one which he first made to-day session, and the tendency of this motion, or who in support of his motion. Then, he announced will not analzye them, I flatter myself that all who his object only to be an abstract expression of our will take the pains to comprehend them fully, will sympathies with the Patriots, for their encouragesee in it consistency instead of inconsistency-ment, and of our will for relief to the Executive: constancy to principle, instead of any aberration and he positively disavowed any wish that it should from it, and a just attention to my own constitu- be construed into dictation or even a recommentional rights and duties, instead of an encroach- dation to the President. Now he seems to conment, either wanton or inadvertent, on those of a sider it as an enunciation of public sentiment co-ordinate department of the Government. which the President was bound to obey; and, However paradoxical it may appear to a super-consequently, that its reiteration now may be ficial observer, yet, I feel a strong confidence that a thorough knowledge of the design and effects of the two propositions will, while it approves the vote which I gave on the resolution, maintain the propriety of that which I shall give on this motion, and show, not only that both will be excusable, but right, and that the latter is required by a regard as well to consistency as propriety.

coercive. Although this discrepancy will tend to show the reasons of my vote last session and now, yet I regret that it has occurred; because the design which it might indicate, in my colleague, is inconsistent with the elevation of character which so pre-eminently distinguishes him, and the candor and disinterestedness which have so signally marked his political career. I wish not to be misunderI have not changed any opinion which I enter-stood. I do not intend to intimate that he has tained last Winter, in relation to this subject, nor am I less animated now by the feelings and wishes which I then cherished. But I think that the resolution then, and the motion now, are radically different.

The motives which recommended the adoption of the former, cannot be connected with the latter; indeed they will not justify it. They do not even exist. All the ends which the resolution was designed to produce, have been accomplished. If this motion be intended for the same purposes, it is unnecessary; if, for others, they are ascertained to be either impracticable or unconstitutional in their operation. Wherefore, I believe that, while the resolution was justified by the ends it was intended to answer, this motion is indefensible by the same consideration, or by any argument of expediency or constitutionality. This I expect to show. The one was auxiliary, the other will be supererogatory or coercive.

any other object than what he has announced. I am not willing to suspect him for any other. But others, less friendly to him, when they observe the tone of his speech, delivered to-day, and its discordancy with that of last Winter, and examine the character and effect of his motion, might apprehend that the motives which stimulate his efforts are not such as become him, or ought to be encouraged.

Before I state my objections to the proposed appropriation, and the circumstances which distinguish it from the resolution adopted last Winter, I must notice the speech to-day, for another purpose. It intimated that the vote on this motion will be a test of the feelings of this House towards the Patriots, and of its opinions on the subject of their recognition. This might have been one of the effects of the resolution-but this motion cannot draw the line between the friends of the Patriots and their enemies; because, however friendly we may be to the success of the Patriots, we canI do not mean to say that such is the object of not do them any service by the adoption of the the motion, but that such must and will be its op-motion. Whatever we may think about their re

FEBRUARY, 1821.

South American States.

H. OF R.

dependence of Spanish America, or even render it any essential service, without transcending our authority, or endangering our own safety, I would be one of the last men in this House to refuse or withhold my approbation and most cordial support. I would act with as much decision and alacrity as would become so good a purpose. But, if those who advocate the motion think that its success will contribute to accomplish, or even facilitate, the enfranchisement of South America, or that it is prudent, or safe, or Constitutional, for us to adopt it for that purpose, or any other which it can effect, I think they will find, on a careful examination of the whole subject, that they are mistaken, and that the only tendency of the measure (if it have any) will be to distract our own councils, or embarrass and coerce a co-ordinate department of the Government.

If the ends designed to be effected by the vote of last session, be the only ones which the motion to appropriate is intended to accomplish, there can be no necessity to adopt it. I see nothing to be gained by it. The avowed purposes of Congressional interposition have been accomplished. The opinions and feelings which prompted me to vote for the resolution of last session, and which I still cherish, do not require me to vote for this motion and, when I look at the inevitable tendency of the motion, if adopted, (and if it shall have any effect at all,) I feel sure that it is inconsistent with the opinions, and motives, and purposes, avowed last session. I then went as far as I thought I had a right to go, and as far as I intended to go; I cannot be lured or forced any farther.

;

cognition, we cannot recognise by any vote we can give and because this motion will be opposed on grounds which have no connexion with our feelings or opinions in regard to the South American struggle. Besides, in regard to myself, I must say that I feel as much solicitude for the independence of Spanish America now as I ever did; and I have given some evidence of the deep interest I have felt on that subject. While I am not an enthusiast or madman on that interesting subject, I have no doubt that I feel as sincere and patriotic an anxiety about the ultimate results of the great struggle in South America as any prudent or rational man does or ought to feel, in this House or this nation. It is, indeed, as it has been so feelingly denominated by its distinguished advocate, (Mr. CLAY,) "a great, a glorious cause." It is a cause interesting to all mankind, and peculiarly so to the votaries of freedom: a cause on the issue of which are staked the dearest rights of the civilized community. In such a cause the people of this country are not, cannot be indifferent. No, sir; they feel a deep and lively interest in every incident of its progress. No one is more gratified than I am with the intelligence of the splendid conquest of Lima by Cochrane, just announced with such inspiring eloquence by my colleague. I hope that it may be true, and that the principles of enlightened liberty may march onward and triumphantly in the South, until they shall have extirpated every remnant of royalty, superstition, and despotic hierarchy, and until the whole population of Spanish America shall not only achieve their independence, but establish civil institutions, habits, and manners, adapted to secure to themselves and I acted last Winter under the influence of the their posterity the full fruition of all the blessings motives and for the purposes then avowed by the of free government and free religion. This is a advocates of the resolution; and, if any others had consummation most devoutly to be desired by all been avowed, especially such as I fear will be imphilanthropists of the world, whatever may be the puted to this motion, I would not, I could not, various speculations about the capacity of the South have supported the resolution. I cannot with cerAmerican Spaniards to sustain free and liberal in- tainty say what were the motives of all those who stitutions until they shall have become more en- constituted the majority on that resolution, but I lightened in the principles of civil and religious hazard nothing in speaking of those which, and liberty; and I pray that it may soon be effected, which alone, were avowed, and those which were and that the day may not be distant when the disavowed; which avowals and disavowals I then whole South American population may be seen thought, and still believe, influenced, if not all, at worshipping as freemen, in the temple of freedom, least a majority of those with whom I then coand bowing as Christians at the altar of a Chris-operated. And I believe I will be supported by tian God. No man, in his sober senses, feels more anxiety for such a result than I do not only on account of its beneficent effects on the people of the South, but also on account of the magic impulsion it would give to the people's cause, in " the great moral battle" in which the present generation are engaged, by encouraging, and inspiring, and invigorating the friends of human rights throughout the world.

But, whatever may be my feelings, my wishes, or my prayers, in so good and so great a cause, I do not consider myself permitted, by considerations of duty or prudence, to express them in this appropriation bill. I can see no desirable or Constitutional purpose to be effected by the success of the motion; and I think I can see a mischievous tendency in it.

If we could, by such an effort, achieve the in

the recollection of those who were here at the last session, when I say that those avowals and disavowals indicated a policy and a purpose which did not recommend any ulterior measure on our part, and which will not justify it now. I shall, therefore, advert to the declarations of last session, and to the character and effects of the appropriation proposed, for the purpose of showing not only that the course I am about to pursue is consistent and defensible, but that it is the only one which can be in consonance with the motives and purposes which were announced at the last session, and under the influence of which I then acted, and shall still act.

The Executive is, by the Constitution, vested with the exclusive power to nominate and to receive foreign Ministers. It will not be denied that, in the exercise of this highly responsible

power, he should be free and independent, and that, so far as he is the depository of power, he, and he alone, should exert it; and that he, and he alone, is responsible for the manner in which it is exerted. No one department of the Government should embarrass, dictate to, or control any other, in the exercise of its Constitutional rights and duties. This is the theory of the Constitution, and a due and uniform adherence to its maxims is necessary to the preservation of the Constitution itself. Whenever any department is under the influence of any other, either openly or covertly exercised, the checks and balances of the Constitution are destroyed, and there is danger of a virtual metamorphosis of the Government, by a concentration of powers which are distributed in such a manner as to prevent such a tendency, if exercised honestly and independently by their Constitutional depositories.

FEBRUARY, 1821.

to have, or could have, either in construction or operation, any other effect on the Executive than a simple declaration that we were willing to appropriate money, and to support and co-operate with him, if he, acting alone on his own opinion and his own responsibility, should think fit to send a Minister to Spanish America, and that we gave our assent to recognition, leaving him free to discharge his power, in relation to it, in his own way, and according to his own wishes and opinion. And I venture to say, that, if any other design had not been disavowed, the resolution would have been rejected.

،

Sir, this was the language used in debate, and this was the language of those who adopted the resolution. Further than this I did not intend to go-further I could not go.

All that I intended, and all that I believe the majority intended, by the vote of last session, 50 far as the subject of recognition was concerned, was to say to the Executive: "We do not know what you are willing to do towards the Patriots; we do not even pretend to know or to say what In the exercise of the power to nominate Minis- you ought to do; but, lest you may be embarters, therefore, the President should not be in- rassed by doubts as to public opinion, we inform structed or awed by the House of Representatives.' you, that we will be content if you, with all the This view will show that the resolution of last information you have, determine to recognise their session could not have been intended to have any independent existence; and, so far as we may coercive or dictatorial operation or construction.have a right to participate with you in the exerBut this idea is fortified by the avowals and disa-cise of this high power, we give our assent to vowals made by its mover and others who advo- any act you may do, having confidence that any cated it. It was adopted in the spirit of confi- decision made by your discretion and wisdom. dence in the Executive, and of co-operation with will be a correct one; but we do not wish you to hin, and acquiescence in whatever course he understand that we advise you to any particular might, in the exercise of his own discretion and course. You must act on your own information more informed judgment, think it most expedient and responsibility; we will furnish you with the to pursue, and not in a tone of dictation, or for means." the purpose of changing his opinion, or relaxing his resolution. It was not intended even to whisper advice, otherwise those who voted for it would have transcended their authority, because this House is not, and ought not to be, the adviser of the Executive. Doubts were said to exist whether the President was not deterred from sending a Minister to Spanish America, by an apprehension that public sentiment would not sustain him, and that this House would refuse an appropriation. It was also urged that the President had not the right to recognise the independence of a new Government without the assent of this House as well as of the Senate; and this is my own opinion. For the purpose, then, of giving him a pledge that public opinion would be with him, and that we would give him the money, provided he, with all the information he possessed, should think it expedient to send a Minister, and for the purpose of giving our assent to recognition, as far as we were or might be concerned in it, and not to command, or even recommend it, the resolution was introduced and adopted. It was intended only to strengthen, embolden, and disembarrass the President, by an assurance of our support, and not to censure or persuade. As far as the subject of recognition was affected, these, I affirm, without fear of contradiction, were the objects, and only objects, of the resolution. At least, they were the only ones that influenced me, and the only ones that were avowed, and I assert that all others were positively disavowed. I would have opposed the resolution if I had suspected that it was intended

It was declared, that such an assurance to the Executive was one object of the resolution, and that another, and the only other, was to give encouragement to the Patriots, by giving them some testimony of our good feelings and wishes towards them. It was said, that such an expression of our disposition in their favor would have a great "moral effect" in their struggle, and would animate and invigorate them. So far as I could produce such a result by any abstract vote, without entangling ourselves in the contest, I was glad to have an opportunity to do it; and with that view, in addition to those I have mentioned, I voted for the resolution with pleasure and alacrity.

I was willing, as far as such a resolution would operate on the spirits of the Patriots, to inspire them with confidence, and stimulate them to new and more vigorous and persevering efforts. But! did not intend to pledge the United States to recognise their independence, or give them any aid; nor did I intend to make any appropriation after the adoption of the resolution, unless it should be called for by the President; and, although the resolution itself might authorize a different inference, the avowals that were made, and the nature of the objects to be obtained by its adoption, will abundantly show, that no more was intended by it than I have stated. The form was immaterial, so

that the ends could be accomplished, and this was frequently mentioned in argument. Perhaps the form was liable to as few exceptions as any other which could have been devised. It only meant to give support to the Executive, and encouragement to the Patriots; we had no right or motive to do more. I trust that I have now shown satisfactorily the character and intent of the resolution; and, in doing so, I flatter myself that I have also justified the support which I gave it, by exhibiting the avowed objects of its adoption, all of which were constitutionally attainable, and right and proper, because within our power, and well intended.

H. OF R.

And here may be seen the ground on which I feel bound to oppose the appropriation. If, instead of the resolution of last session, the motion had been made which is now offered, or if, immediately after the adoption of that resolution, we had been asked to make the appropriation, I should, for the reasons which induce me to vote for the resolution, have given such a measure my entire assent and most cheerful support; because then it could not be known what would be the President's determination on the subject of the mission, and it was immaterial, as was alleged in debate, whether the appropriation preceded the nomination of But the reasons which would justify, and even a Minister, or the nomination the appropriation. render necessary, that vote, do not apply to the But the time which has interlapsed since the adopmotion now under consideration, and cannot war- tion of the resolution has given us indubitable rant, but do forbid, its adoption; because, by the evidence of the course of policy which the Presiresolution, all the ends have been achieved which dent is resolved to pursue. The motives, therewere intended, and the adoption of this motion fore, which recommended the resolution do not cannot be necessary to effect the same results, but exist, and I can see no object to be attained by the must (if it have any practical operation) produce appropriation, unless it be intended, by being used such as were never designed before, and such as as the echo of public sentiment, to drive the Presiwe have no right to attempt. I repeat, that the dent from the course of policy which he deems objects of the resolution were, first, to animate most expedient, and has determined to observe. the Patriots by an abstract proposition of our If we could reasonably doubt whether the Execuwishes for their success; and, second, to inform tive has resolved not to send a Minister to South the President of our willingness to support him, America, or whether he understood the resolution as far as we had the power, in any measure which of last session, or whether he requires an approhe, in his own opinion, might think it most expe- priation before he can make up his mind, then we dient to adopt towards the Patriots, and to give our should have some pretext for making the approassent to recognition, as far as it might be suppos- priation. But is there a member on this floor who ed that we had a right to act. And here I beg has the remotest doubt on this subject? Can any leave to say, that this latter consideration had man tell me that he is not convinced that the Presigreat influence on my vote. I did think, and still dent does not intend to nominate a Minister to the do, that the Executive should never recognise the South; or that he has any hope that he intends to independence of any new Government without the do so on the event of an appropriation; or that he assent of this House. It would not be permissible would have done it heretofore if an appropriation for me here to make an argument to prove the had been made; or that he wants any further excorrectness of this opinion. I will only observe, pression of public sentiment than that which he that it is in accordance with that expressed by my has received on that subject? No, sir; we have colleague, (Mr. CLAY,) and is fortified by one of the strongest reasons to impress the conviction that the ablest arguments of one of the most enlight-he neither expects nor wishes an appropriation; that ened statesmen who ever adorned this country. I he needs no further information or assistance from will inquire, whether this doctrine was not urged us; and that if we had made an appropriation last as a reason why it was our duty to pass the reso- Winter no Minister would have been sent. Did we lution? Was it not said, that the Executive could not, by the resolution which was adopted, tell him not, would not, act without having our assent? that we would assent to recognition? Did he I will now appeal to the author of the resolution, want more, if he had been disposed to send a Minand of the motion now before us, to say, whether ister? Is it usual to vote an appropriation for a any other motives for the adoption of his resolu- mission before it is called for? Why, then, did tion were avowed than those I have mentioned, he not send a Minister? There is but one anand whether all others were not disavowed? Íswer; it is, because he did not think it wise and know he would answer affirmatively. These then prudent to do so. He has called for an appropriaare the reasons which rendered proper the vote of tion for an outfit for a Minister to France to suclast session; and I declare that, if we had never ceed Mr. Gallatin. Why has he not called for yet passed a resolution on South American affairs, one for a Minister to South America? It is, beI would now vote for one with the same motives cause he intends to send a Minister to France, and which induced me to vote for it last session. But has determined not to send one to South America. having, by the adoption of that resolution, done Having, then, given the Executive all the inforall that was necessary, I see no motive to do any mation and assistance which were necessary to thing more, and think I see unanswerable objec-exempt him from doubt or embarrassment, as far tions to an attempt to go farther than we have gone. By going further we have no desirable or legitimate end to attain, and that is always a good objection to any species of legislation. But this is not my only objection.

as we are concerned, and knowing, as we do, that he has, after having carefully considered our resotion and weighed all the arguments for and against a mission to the South, resolved against it, I would ask, what is the object of this motion? Is it to in

H. OF R.

South American States.

FEBRUARY, 1821.

form the Patriots of public feeling in this coun- none all. It might, indeed, have the effect of rentry? We have done it; and it is not necessary or dering the President obnoxious to popular resentdignified to repeat it every Winter. Is it to give ment, by showing our importunity and his pertiassurance of our support to the Executive? We nacity, and by implying distrust in him, and rehave done it. Is it to recognise the independence proach for the course which he pursues. .And it of any of the South American provinces? As may have the further effect of inducing a belief far as we have any power on that subject, we that we think he has wantonly disregarded the have exercised it. All these ends have been voice of public sentiment, and have determined to effected by the resolution of last session. goad him with it until he shall be forced to obey Then, for what purpose make the appropria-it. No statesman can desire such consequences. tion? I hope there is no illegitimate object. But, Why, then, when we know that the President whatever the object be, it is either unnecessary or does not intend to send a Minister, are we reunauthorized. It is unnecessary, if it be no other quired to make an appropriation? And this he than that for which the resolution was adopted. has told us, by his conduct, as unequivocally as If it be for any other, I repeat that it is not only the plainest language could speak. For reasons unconstitutional, but inconsistent with the ends of satisfactory to himself, he has, on his own responthat resolution. For, whatever may be the pur-sibility, after deliberating on our resolution, and poses intended by the motion, it can have either consulting the lights he possesses, and carefully, no effect, or a coercive one. And if this latter be and no doubt anxiously, weighing the whole mateither the design or the tendency of the motion, ter, come to this determination. And, however even those who are most anxious to have the Pat- some gentleman may regret this determination, riots acknowledged, cannot, if they revere their we cannot control it; we should not attempt it. own Constitution, and understand its theory and We have discharged our duty to the Patriots and principles, be willing that such an end should be the President; we have done all we could rightproduced by such means. The Constitution has fully do; we agreed to make an appropriation, if distributed the sovereign power among three de- he would take it; he will not use it. What more partments; and made each independent. On this can we, should we do? If we could force the distribution of power, and independence of its de- President to recognition, what will the country positories, depend the preservation of the Constitu- gain by it? And what may it not lose? tion, and the conservation of all the rights which it was made to guard. And the moment one department can successfully encroach on and control, directly or indirectly, either of the others, the equilibrium of the Constitution is destroyed, and its theory changed. However flattering it may be to our pride, that the Judiciary should decide, and the Executive act, in all cases confided to their discretion, exactly as we wish, or as we would do if we had the power, yet, if this conformity be produced, not by their own uncontrolled judgments, but by a wish to gratify us, or a fear of offending us, they are not the Ministers of the Constitution, but the humble instruments of our own will. It is just as improper that we should control the Executive as that he should control us. We should all confine ourselves strictly to our sphere, and submit cheerfully to the conduct of each, as long as it is within the scope of the Constitution. I do not fear that the President will be alarmed by this motion, if it be adopted, into an abandonment of the policy which the suggestions of his own judgment have recommended to him. If he should be, he is unworthy of the high trust confided to him. But its tendency, without any adequate object, will be to annoy and embarrass him; and the example will be deleterious, because it may, in worse times, serve as a precedent to sanction similar measures, intended for sinister purposes, (for which this is not,) and crowned with fatal success. We should never countenance any measure, however good its motives, which may have such a pernicious tendency. I am unwilling to believe that any one here will vote for this motion in the hope that it will embarrass, coerce, or reproach the President. But I think that all will acknowledge, that, if it should not have this effect, it can have

I would dictate to, I would coerce the Executive, or any other man or men, however exalted, as promptly as any other individual would, if Í had the right to do it, and could thereby achieve any desirable end. But I cannot vote for a proposition which can produce no practical good, and may do mischief by its operation, its construction, or its example.

I have another objection to this motion: It is, that it will force the President, when the bill shall be presented to him for his signature, either to reject the whole appropriation, or, by his signature, give his assent to this appropriation for a Minister. And, in the latter event, he might be supposed to be bound to send a Minister, because he had approved an appropriation for that purpose. Sir, we act on our own responsibility; let the President act on his. I am not willing (if I had the power) to take it from him, or to impose any more on him than the Constitution imposes. Let him, with the exception of Constitutional restraint, and that of his own conscience and judgment, be as free as air. It is our interest as well as his that he should be. Let us attend carefully to our own duties, and enjoy our own privileges, and permit him to enjoy his rights and discharge his duties in his own way, without interference, dictation, or annoyance. This policy is safe to all. Any other is dangerous. If we repeatedly press this subject on the Executive, the inference will be that we do it to coerce him.

I have thus crudely endeavored to show my objections to this motion, and the consistency of my conduct. My opinions may be wrong, yet they are my opinions, and may justify or condemn my course. But I submit it to the candor of those who hear me to say, whether the vote I gave at the