Secondly, the effect of the proposed bill on the rate of production is of primary interest to the War Department. We do not feel it is proper for this Department to attempt to forecast what this effect will be on labor supply, labor turnover, morale, and the other factors that are important in production. Our statistics indicate that 51 strikes, or 4 percent of the total number affecting production of materials in which the War Department is vitally interested, occurring since March 1943, were caused by disputes in which the utilization of minority groups was a factor, and that 190,000, or 5.5 percent, of the total man-days lost were attributable to the same situation. This record is not too bad.

The Executive orders as they stand now seem generally to be functioning sucessfully in war plants and have in all probability been a factor in increasing labor supplies, which has been helpful. However, the labor problem in war production now is not only that of supplying new workers but also that of insuring that labor already hired stays on the job with a minimum of unrest, turn-over, and absenteeism. We do not know whether or not the passage of an antidiscrimination bill would supply substantial quantities of new labor or the effects that it might have on the equilibrium of labor now employed. We believe that the agencies qualified to do so should throughly investigate these problems before action is taken on this bill. The agencies best qualified to make this determination we should think might be the Department of Labor, the War Labor Board, the War Manpower Commission, the War Production Board, and the F. E. P. C. itself. The War Department's interest is in the maintenance of war production, and it is not within our province to comment on the means of meeting general social and economic problems.

The CHAIRMAN. I may say to you, Mr. Hughes, that we have invited the different agencies that you have enumerated to come before the committee and I assume we shall hear from them.

Mr. HUGHES. I understand that.

The CHAIRMAN. I also want to say that the suggestions that you have made with regard to the bill, the committee will take under consideration. I think some of them are good suggestions and I am sure that the committee will be guided accordingly.

Are there any questions you would like to ask Mr. Hughes, Mr. Day?

Mr. DAY. No; I think he stated clearly what his position was, and in view of the limitation on his comments, I have nothing to ask. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hughes, do you wish the letter addressed to the chairman of the committee to be included in the record?

Mr. HUGHES. Yes. It is our official statement over the signature of the Secretary of War.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be included in the record at this point. (The letter referred to is as follows:)

Hon. MARY T. NORTON,

Chairman, Committee on Labor,

House of Representatives.

MAY 23, 1944.

DEAR MRS. NORTON: The War Department has considered H. R. 3986, H. R. 4004, and H. R. 4005, Seventy-eighth Congress, which are entitled "To prohibit discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, or ancestry." Inasmuch as the provisions of those bill s are substantially identical, the following comments are applicable to each of them.

The underlying purpose of the several bills is to eliminate discrimination against any person because of race, creed, color, national origin, or ancestry in all employment relations which fall within the jurisdiction or control of the Federal Government. It is stated in the bills that the practice of discriminating in employment against persons for the above-mentioned reasons deprives the Nation of the fullest utilization of its capacities for production and defense. The War Department is in accord with the general purpose of prohibiting discriminatory employment practices. However, whether the substitution of the proposed legislation for existing administrative procedure would have a favorable or unfavorable effect on production is a matter involving broad and complex social questions which are not considered to be within the province of the War Department to comment upon. The only provision of the bills upon which the War Department believes it should comment is section 13. That section relates to the insertion of an antidiscrimination clause in Government contracts and subcontracts and contains a penalty clause.

The word "renegotiation" in section 13 (a) is confusing as it would ordinarily be construed to refer to statutory renegotiation under the Renegotiation Act. The antidiscrimination article is not normally appropriate in such renegotiation agreements as such contracts do not contemplate the employment of persons. It is suggested that section 13 (a) be revised to read as follows:

"SEC. 13. (a) All contracting agencies of the Government of the United States shall include in all contracts hereafter negotiated by them, and in all contracts hereafter amended or modified which do not already contain such a provision, a provision obligating the contractor not to discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, or ancestry, and requiring him to include a similar provision in all subcontracts. This section shall not be applicable to any contract which does not contemplate the employment of persons for its performance."

Subsection (b) of section 13 creates the possibility that a company furnishing necessary or irreplaceable commodities or services to the Government (for example, a utility serving an Army installation) may be debarred from performing any further work for the Government for a period of 3 years if it violates any provision of the bills. The action of the Fair Employment Practice Commission might thus prevent the carrying out of an essential war job. To obviate this possibility it is recommended that subsection (b) of section 13 be amended to read as follows:

"(b) Unless either (1) the Commission shall otherwise determine and state in its order, or (2) the head of the agency placing the contract shall certify in writing that it is necessary or expedient in the public interest that a contract be placed with such person notwithstanding such order, no contract shall be awarded by the United States or any agency thereof to any person found by the Commission to have violated any of the provisions of this Act or to any firm, corporation, partnership, or association in which such person has a controlling interest, until three years have elapsed from the date when the Commission determines such violation to have occurred. The Comptroller General is authorized and directed to distribute a list to all agencies of the United States containing the names of such persons."

The War Department is unable to estimate the fiscal effect of enactment of the proposed bills.

The Bureau of the Budget advises that there is no objection to the submission of this report.

Sincerely yours,

HENRY L. STIMSON,
Secretary of War.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Klein, have you any questions? Mr. KLEIN. Mr. Hughes, do I understand you to say that it is the view of the War Department that you would like to amend section 13 (b) so as to leave to the head of the agency concerned, or the procurement division, the decision as to whether to continue to do business with somebody who has violated the provisions of this bill, if it becomes law?

Mr. HUGHES. We refer particularly to the War Department, the Navy Department, and the Maritime Commission. We could, of course, get an exception from the Commission, but we think, in the

interest of security, that these procuring agencies ought to be permitted in time of war to go ahead and make their procurement, provided, of course, they state that it is necessary in the interest of the prosecution of the war.

Mr. KLEIN. Would you go a step further-of course this really has no connection with this particular bill-and say that you would like to leave it to the head of the agency to determine whether to continue to do business with somebody that has violated the law?

Mr. HUGHES. That is what it amounts to, and that, of coursethat is, continuing a contract with them would have to be contingent upon the necessity of doing it.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scanlon, have you any questions?

Mr. SCANLON. No; Mr. Klein asked the questions I had intended to ask.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hughes, we are very grateful to you for taking time out of your busy day to present the views of the War Department to this committee. Thank you very much.

Mr. HUGHES. Thank you very much for the opportunity of appearing before the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Our next witness is a gentleman whose bill is before the committee, Mr. Dawson.

Mr. Dawson, we shall be glad to have you tell us about your bill at this time.

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM L. DAWSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Mr. DAWSON. Madam Chairman and members of the committee, for one to understand clearly the necessity for such a bill, I do think we should have something of the background that caused the appointment of the present F. E. P. C. Prior to the war, when business was just beginning to speed up, and when the manpower shortage was first felt and labor became scarce in various industries, efforts were made by advertisements in the papers and by radio and public rallies to cure this situation. But Negroes were not called to work. They went to factories advertising for help and were turned down because they were Negroes.

After Pearl Harbor the situation became even graver. War production went into high gear. Labor was at a scarcity. Women were being called for jobs that women had never done before, even children of school age were urged to work part time because of this manpower shortage. And yet Negroes who were laborers, Negroes with skill, were turned down-because they were Negroes.

The labor situation got so acute that the war industries and the war movement were being retarded. The President, in his judgment, in order to meet a war situation, in order to cure or seek to cure a glaring wrong, appointed this Committee. Mr. Scanlon has told you that the Committee had no power of subpena; they had no power to compel witnesses to come before them; they had no power to enforce their directives by any action against employers, against unions, or others. Their only powers were those of persuasion. If you could understand and have knowledge of the great work that has been done by this Committee, armed only with the power of persuasion; if you could

appreciate how they have gone to the management of various industries and laid the situation before them-the necessities of the country, the fairness and squareness of giving employment to all Americansif you could see the results that they have gotten in thousands of cases causing many thousands of men and women to be called into war plants, you would appreciate the great work that has been done in the war effort by this Committee.

But that has not been all-the speeding up of the war work by the Committee. I wish I could convey to you something of the psychological attitude of millions of people, citizens of a country, who were denied the right to work simply because of the color of their skin; how they felt in the land of the free; what their attitude would be toward the Government of the country in which they were born, when they saw their boys were being called to the colors, and yet the mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters of those same boys were denied the right to work, at a time when every inudstry was advertising for men and women. In some instances industries went so far as to pay bonuses to employees who induced other people to come to work, and stay as long as 30 days on the job. A bonus was given to that employee who obtained a new employee, so grave was the situation.

There was great bitterness in this country among 13,000,000 Negro people. We might as well face this situation. Thirteen million people compose one-tenth of the population of this great Nation of ours. What shall be the attitude of America toward those 13,000,000? Are you going to relegate them to a position of serfdom? Are you going to be satisfied to see them grow in ignorance and poverty? Are you going to deny to them the opportunities that you proclaim to the world should be given to all men? No. There is not a fair-minded man or woman in this Nation who would not say that such a condition should not obtain. But we do need a lot of education in this country to bring sane, sensible people around to the knowledge that, after all, this question of race is not a thing to be afraid of.

This question of difference of color is not a thing to be afraid of. If our Christianity be right; if we believe in the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man; if our democracy means what it claims, the embracing of all human beings within its scope; then, for the sake of the Christianity that we claim, we have got to look the matter fairly and squarely in the face and do all we can to alleviate the unjust conditions and unfair problems of any people, regardless of race or origin or creed or religion. Sooner or later, here in this country, we have got to face the question and settle it right for all times in the minds of the people. And there is no better way to begin to face that problem than to assure to every people that they will have the opportunity to work, along with all other peoples in this Nation of ours. The right to work is synonymous with the right to live. Take from me my opportunity to work, deny to me the opportunity to work because of my color, and you deny to me the opportunity to raise a family, you deny to me the opportunity to educate my children, and you deny to me the opportunity to build a home and to acquire those things which, according to all human standards, should be the minimum which any individual should have.

Certainly, in a land as rich and powerful as ours, there is plenty for everyone. The F. E. P. C. is a step to assure to the American public the consummation of a right, not the infliction of a wrong. There

is no wrong to be done to any human being within this country by assuring to any other human being the right to work if he or she has the skill and ability. That is not taking anything from any other man-to give to me the thing that I am entitled to as a man. certainly within the confines of this great Nation of ours, there is enough for everybody, of work, of money, and of opportunity, if we will but lay the foundation for it.

And

And the F. E. P. C. is seeking to lay the foundation for something that is of vital importance to the ideals of this Nation.

You say, "What do we care about it?" I will tell you.

If our Nation is to assume its rightful place among the nations of the world as the champion of democracy, if we are to gain their confidence and obtain trade to keep our industries going, we have got to care. Just the other day I talked to natives from Puerto Rico. One walked into my office. He was surprised to see a Negro sitting in the Congress of the United States, because he had been in a certain section of our country where Negroes are not even permitted the ordinary opportunities that would come to the poorest of human beings in some other countries. He could not understand why white people and colored people could not work together and live together and build a great nation together without all this friction and racial bickering among one another. Certainly he could not understand how we could claim that we had a democracy. He said, "You do not have a democracy. You may have a republican form of government, but that is not a democracy. You do not have as much democracy here as we have in our own country."

Then take the countries of South America. If we are going to maintain our friendly relations with them, if we are going to maintain our neighborly policies with them, how can we do that and continue within our own country some of the habits and customs that we have been indulging in the past? We will be but the laughing stock of the members of those nations when after the war they come to this Nation in ever-increasing numbers and find that even the fundamental human right of the opportunity to work and earn a livelihood is denied to American citizens because of race or national origin. It will destroy the faith and confidence of other nations in the sincerity of the American people. Loss of faith and confidence in us is bound to retard our trade with those nations and thus destroy markets for our industries.

So when we come before you with this bill for a permanent F. E. P. C., we are asking for permission to do a job for national unity. We are asking for a committee to be charged with the responsibility of seeing that every American, regardless of race, creed, or color, gets an opportunity to work regardless of what his nationality, origin, race, creed, or color may be. That is no more than what our Constitution guarantees us.

If the Constitution guarantees us that in words, and we say in practice we are not getting that result, is it not then the fit and proper thing for the law-making body to do the thing which it thinks and believes will help make that Constitution a living reality?

It is all right to speak of the Constitution as a great document, but a document not based upon human service cannot survive. It will be a short-lived document and not the document that the forefathers intended the Constitution to be, and time has proven that