Now, Congressman Welch has referred to the good relations that exist between the two peoples now. With due deference to the seniority and the experience of Congressman Welch, I would like to say that during the major part of my life I, too, have been interested in this very important fact of the relations between the two peoples, because it happens that I belong to both, and I am very proud of that fact. I would say this, that the treatment that the Mexican people get in the United States is probably the outstanding and the most delicate test of the relations between the two Governments. I know, for example, that even isolated cases of discrimination, if brought to the attention of the Mexican press, bring about immediately a tremendous hullaballoo. I would also go further and say that people who are not at all interested in the Mexican workman, either in Mexico or in the United States, seize upon that as an opportunity to worsen relations between the two Republics, rather than to improve them.

One additional point. The sensitivity of, or the interest of Mexican people in the treatment that their fellow nationals get in the United States in transmitted to the rest of Latin America. And here is a point which Congressman Welch has perhaps also thought of, that in the southern part of the continent this question of how the Mexicans are treated, the economic discrimination to which they are subjected, becomes whether sincerely or insincerely a matter of public debate, very often to the detriment of the relations of the American people with Latin America.

Finally, on that point, I want to call your attention to the fact that it has been my hope that some day these conditions would be eliminated, even the isolated instances where they exist, so that the enemies of our democratic institutions would not be able to use them to belabor democracy as they have during the past 2 years on the Axis radio. And there are, of course, instances of public record, of that.

If I may have a few minutes, I would like to close my testimony by suggesting that the program of protection against economic discrimination, such as is contemplated in these two bills, should play a part within a larger program. That is to say, what we have at hand is not merely a case of economic discrimination against Mexicans or American citizens of Mexican descent, but we have in this country a population of about 21⁄2 million people scattered in 12 or 15 States, who do not belong to the American community; not because they do not want to, but because they do not find it easy, because of language barriers, because of their economic status, to contribute something to the life of the community in which they live-to contribute as much as they can. That is the essential thing.

I heard, for example, within the last 2 days, of the cases of four families who live in an isolated community in the South. They are not able to send their children to school. I do not know the reasons for that, but the fact is that there are eight children in those families who are of school age and they cannot go to school.

The problem presented there is, can we not find some agency, or can we not envision a Federal program of assistance to these people so that when a problem like that is found, it can be resolved through coordinated action between these people and the public agency?

Other instances of the same type have come to my attention in the last few years. So I want to stress that I am convinced that the

F. E. P. C., in its attempt to break down or to eliminate economic discrimination, plays a role, or would play a role, within a major program which should include attention to housing, for example; attention to nutrition for the young children of these millions of Americans of Mexican extraction; attention to problems of health which are very serious. I know, because I have lived for months in these communities with these people, studying these questions.

So, within a general program of that kind, the F. E. P. C., I think, would undoubtedly make a very valuable contribution.

I, as an American citizen of Mexican extraction, would regard it as a form of discrimination if a permanent F. E. P. C. were to be set up without having due regard to the interest of the Mexican or Spanishspeaking population in this country, in connection with these problems that you are discussing.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, they would come within the minority groups, would they not?

Mr. GALARZA. I should hope they would.

The CHAIRMAN. We are attempting to help all minority groups. Mr. Galarza, I believe if the F. E. P. C. becomes permanent by law, we can do this.

Are there any questions?

Mr. KELLEY. Madam Chairman, I would like to interpose this statement. I do not believe the difficulty with the Mexicans in this country is any different from that which we have experienced with other groups. As Congressman Welch has pointed out, we had the same difficulty with the Irish at one time; and we have had it with the Poles and the Slavs and the Russians and the Italians, and numerous of the central European peoples. We have had the same, identical difficulty. And we still have it with some of them.

The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further questions, thank you very much, Mr. Galarza. You have given us a great deal of valuable information.

Mr. GALARZA. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and gentlemen. The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Scott is here and would like to make a statement to the committee.

STATEMENT OF HON. HUGH D. SCOTT, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scott, we are very glad to have you with u and I hope you are prepared to give us some information on these bills and how you feel about them.

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to be present. I was thinking, during the previous testimony, that reference had only been made to economic discrimination as far back as 1847. As a matter of fact, I believe that I am right in suspecting that at times, what has passed as racial or religious discrimination has frequently had an economic base. And I think that that perhaps had a great deal to do with the fact that when the Pilgrims landed in 1620, not long afterward competition developed from the Baptists, and if I may say it without offense to anyone, as I recall it, there were some stories that the Pilgrims chased the Baptists from Massachusetts into Rhode Island.

One of my own ancestors, as a matter of fact the first one in this country, came here as an indentured servant. He had to work for his freedom for 7 years. So that not all slavery was black slavery. The CHAIRMAN. But we have been growing up, have we not?

Mr. SCOTT. We have been growing up, we have been advancing. But we have had this economic discrimination. We progress over a very long and very hard road.

I am in favor of setting up the F. E. P. C. as a permanent agency. I think that if it is good, it should have permanent status. If it is not good, it should not exist at all. I think that it is good. If it has made mistakes, that is a human fault and any mistakes or unfortunate errors that it might have made were far outnumbered by the good which it has accomplished and the good which it is capable of accomplishing.

It is an interesting fact that if you ask the average American citizen, regardless of his economic status, to what class he belongs, he is inclined to say that he belongs to the middle class. Surveys have established that almost all Americans say that they are middleclass Americans. Now, it seems to me that the great hope of minority groups-and I have particularly in mind the Negro group in this country is to develop in actuality a real and prospering middle class, so that it is not subjected to the penalties which accrue to any group consisting very largely of persons condemned to a low-income status, that has at the top stratum a few able and brilliant leaders in the professions, such as medicine, law, journalism, engineering.

It seems to me that if the Negro race, for illustration, is to realize its fullest potentialities of full economic equality with any and all other groups of American citizens, it must have the opportunity to develop this middle class through advantages offered as skilled artisans, small businessmen, and larger businessmen as well. So that ultimately the Negro citizens of this country will be as well represented up and down the various economic strata as any other group of Americans.

It is my thought that if F. E. P. C. is wisely administered, with full recognition of the stresses and strains in this country, especially in wartime, that when we have this great problem facing us of the reemployment of all of the returning millions of the armed forces, the trail will have been blazed by such wisdom in administration as to make it possible for the minority groups to find not merely their old niche, because that was not enough; it was not economic justicebut to enable them to find a parallel status and a parallel opportunity in the various phases that go to make up the economic well-being of this country.

Therefore I believe that support should be given to the proposal to establish the F. E. P. C. as a permanent agency. I trust that it will be wisely administered and that it will receive cooperation and support from all sections of the country. Because if we are going to solve the tremendous problems that will face us after the war, we have got to approach them in a spirit of mutual tolerance and especially in a spirit of good will to all groups and members of the American body politic.

That is all, Madam Chairman.

Mr. WELCH. A very good statement, Mr. Scott.
Mr. Scorт. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions?

Mr. FISHER. May I ask one question of Mr. Scott? You went back to 1620 and pointed out those little discriminations that popped up occasionally even back in those early Colonial days. Of course, there have been similar isolated instances here and there through our history for over 300 years.

Mr. SCOTT. Yes. I think that is the shame of it.

Mr. FISHER. Do you believe there has or has not been progress, in alleviating that situation that existed during those different periods? Mr. SCOTT. Very definitely, Mr. Fisher. I, like yourself, am a southerner, and I have every reason to be gratified that there is progress.

Mr. FISHER. That is what I wanted you to say, Mr. Scott. How do you account for that progress? It has not been brought about by legislation such as F. E. P. C., has it?

Mr. SCOTT. I think all progress is the story of the broadening conscience of individuals, of their sense of mutual responsibility, whether it be emphasized through legislative processes or through economic recognition. I think legislation may well be an important attribute to that progress, wise legislation.

Mr. FISHER. With reference to what has been done in the past and the progress that has been made since then, that has not been the result of legislation, has it?

Mr. SCOTT. I would not go quite that far, because there has been legislation from time to time. Of course, the particular measure that the committee is considering has not been on the statute books.

Mr. FISHER. Generally speaking, do you not think it has been the result of a gradual adjustment, of mutual understanding, of education and general progress that results from these different forces operating together under our American system?

Mr. Scorr. Generally speaking, perhaps so. But if But if you will open the statute books of any State in the Union, or of nearly every State in the Union, you will find, for instance, workmen's compensation laws. Those are laws to work economic justice.

Mr. FISHER. But they are not directed to any particular racial discrimination problem, are they?

Mr. SCOTT. I have addressed my remarks principally to the matter of economic discrimination. And in the absence of the Workmen's Compensation Act, for instance, there is grave danger of economic discrimination.

Mr. FISHER. Of course, but the law applies to every minority group and to every majority group, just as the Constitution does.

Mr. SCANLON. May I interrupt to say that the purpose of my bill is not to serve any minority group, or to cover the subject of racial discrimination. The purpose is economic freedom.

The CHAIRMAN. Economic security for all groups.

Mr. SCANLON. For all groups, all minorities, that is right.

Mr. SCOTT. I would like to add that when I used the Negro race as an illustration, I did so because it is a good illustration and an obvious illustration.

The CHAIRMAN. It is the largest minority.

Mr. SCOTT. That is correct.

Mr. SCANLON. It is the largest minority today.

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Mr. SCOTT. My remarks had equal reference to Mexicans, concerning whom Mr. Galarza has testified, and to all minorities.

The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further questions, thank you very much, Mr. Scott. We are glad to have had you with us and are grateful for the contribution you have made to our hearings.

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you for calling me at this time, Madam Chair

man.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock on Tuesday, June 6.

(Whereupon an adjournment was taken until Tuesday, June 6, 1944, at 10 a. m.)