sion which investigated police matters-in other words that policemen should be free to join in the labour organizations, if they desire to do so, then he has reached a point where we would not agree. I do not believe that there is a man in this room that will think our policemen ought to be in any way affiliated in organizations which could possibly result in their being less independent in performing their obligations to the public. (Loud applause)

There were thirty-nine Nations represented in the Conference, and delegates and advisers made a total number of about 250. The meetings of the Conference were held in the magnificent Pan-American Building erected some years ago by Mr. Andrew Carnegie with the help of the South American Republics as well as the United States. The delegates were seated according to countries at long tables, each delegate being permitted to have two advisers just in his rear. The other advisers were seated elsewhere in the Hall. Mr. Wilson, the Secretary of Labour in the United States Administration, took the Chair and gave the opening address, in which he spoke of Moses as the first walking-delegate of the Brick-makers of Israel. (Laughter) He emphasised the necessity of proceeding by slow process of experiment. Later, Mr. Wilson was appointed President of the Conference, although his country was not officially represented. The United States was asked to send official delegates, but Mr. Samuel Gompers, representing Labour, was the only one who appeared even temporarily. The official languages used were French and English-I should say English and French, as it was found that there were eighteen delegates speaking Spanish, but they were all familiar with French. It is said that more countries and languages were represented in this Conference than at any gathering hitherto held in the world's history. The President of the United States being ill, the Conference had the pleasure of hearing an address from Vice-President Marshall. Elsewhere Mr. Marshall used this striking phrase, "I want an industrial democracy, but we are not going to get one until we have an industrious democ

racy." (Hear, hear) The only entertainment which was accorded to delegates by the United States was a trip on the President's Yacht to Mount Vernon, Washington's old home, and return. The plate on the machinery bears ample evidence to the fact that they think British boats are good boats. (Loud applause)

The Employer delegates entertained each other at dinner to a considerable extent, in fact almost every night, so that they got pretty well acquainted and understood better the many conditions governing their activities in the various countries of the world. The Employers held meetings every morning in the large Navy Building near the Pan-American Building, and at those meetings there was much frankness in our discussion and in our talks. I may say that I think this view generally prevailed-it was spoken quite openly by the delegates of European Countries-they said this labour legislation, this whole programme, is being forced upon us and our governments, first of all by the workers themselves from inside, and then by outsiders, largely socialistic, who are pressing upon the workers. They said quite frankly, "Now we do not believe in much of this proposed legislation; we do not think it is good for the workers themselves and we do not think it is good for industry; we have been forced into it however, and we feel compelled to support it." Quite a number of them were frank enough to say to me that if they were in our position, in the position of Canada, on this continent, they would certainly try to keep out of this programme of legislation as long as possible, as they did not believe it wise, especially in the interests of a new and rapidly developing country like Canada. However, as one delegate said, "being in the soup ourselves, we naturally like to get others into it, you know, and we would like to see the United States and Canada join in."

The chief item on the agenda was the application of the principle of the eight-hour day or forty-eight hour week. This question was introduced by the Right Hon. Mr. Barnes of Great Britain, a very sane man. Although all of us could not agree with him, we were charmed with

his personality. If it had not been for the smallpox epidemic he would have been here and given us an address at this or some other Club. Mr. Barnes stated that in Great Britain the men were promised during the war that, if they would remain loyal, they should have shorter hours and better conditions when the war was over. He spoke of this understanding as a bond that must now be fulfilled. He further stated that this was not a proposition for a mere basic eight-hour day with additional pay for additional hours; what the work people wanted was more leisure, not pay. It is interesting to note that the Labour Leader of France, Mr. Jewell, said the workers were not in favour of overtime even in building up the devastated areas of France and Belgium; that they did not want to work overtime in any way. Mr. Barnes admitted there were difficulties in bringing forward in all countries uniform Labour legislation, but thought this could be overcome very largely by the spirit of good-will. Later, however, he made a very notable admission when, speaking of the effect of the reduction of hours in Japan, he said: "If you bring Japan down to the same level as other countries—and we all know that the hours of Labour are too long in Japan, they are shockingly long, and unfair burdens are placed upon the workers both men and women and children, as they are in all Eastern Countries-you would be asking Japan to reduce her production 60%, and you would be asking other countries to reduce theirs probably by about 10%."

To digress for a moment, I should say that the Employers' delegate of France, M. Carrie, stated that, since the working hours in France had been reduced by law from ten to eight hours a day, there had been a corresponding reduction in output. Now, this gentleman is one of the first manufacturers in France, a publicspirited man who was charged by Mr. Hoover with the distribution of food products in the devastated areas, so you will see that he is a man who speaks with some authority and with knowledge backing his statement, and he speaks from the standpoint of a man whose words

mean something. He, however, stated that many workers themselves have become thoroughly dissatisfied with the law, and were working eight hours in their regular occupations, then putting in an hour or two at special work. When I got back from the Ottawa Conference, I was coming down in one of Mr. Fleming's cars, and the conductor said to me, "You have got back from Ottawa, Mr. Parsons; what about the eight-hour day?" I said, "Well, that was passed at the Conference." He said, "Well, I don't believe in it." I asked why, and he replied, "Now, take my case; I start out early in the morning; I finish my work early in the afternoon; and then I have just got to sit and look at myself for the rest of the day." (Laughter) And he went on to say, "Now, I cannot do that; what I do is take on extra work in the afternoon, for two reasons, first because I cannot be idle, and next because I need the money."

that a sensible man?

Is not

This question of the eight-hour day was referred to a Commission of fifteen which, after sitting for many days, brought in a draft convention, or bill as we call it. Now, Gentlemen, I must hurry through, and I will finish in ten minutes or go on a little longer just depending upon your interest in this subject. (Voices: Go on) I may say that when this question came to a vote, I felt that, as representing the Employers of Canada, I should ask to have placed upon the minutes the objections which I understood the Employers themselves would have voiced had they been there, and I will just read them to you:

"While in many industries, the eight-hour day is already in operation, especially in the building trades and in manufacturing where the work is laborious, yet the general application of the shorter working day would, according to actual experience, greatly lessen the total production. At the present time when the Government of the country is calling upon labourers to increase their output in order to meet the heavy national obligations, nothing should be done which would tend to hinder them in their efforts. Only by increased_production can the cost of living be reduced to all classes. To ignore this fundamental principle is to blind our eyes to actual facts. Even Mr. Appleton, the President of the International Federation of Trade Unions, points out that phrases and catch-words are everywhere

taking the place of production. He says, unless the world produces it cannot live. He says the State is often described as a ship; to-day the ship is on the lee-shore, and all hands must work at, maximum speed if she is to be saved from utter wreck. Well, having regard to world-wide interests, it must be remembered that Canada is a young and undeveloped country. The attempt to put her upon the same footing as old-world countries with entirely different conditions is like placing a young and vigorous giant on the same footing as a man advanced in life. We should have the opportunity of directing our own life and managing our own affairs to suit our circumstances, and if we can achieve more in this way as a nation, it is surely not only our privilege but our duty to do so. Why should our national life and development be dwarfed? An ancient philosopher has well said, "That which is not well for the bee-hive, cannot be well for the bee.' The compulsory reduction of hours militates against the establishment of new and small industries, and if the working man is to be hampered in his efforts to rise, a serious blow is struck at the national life of a young and rapidly developing country. The attempt was made in the Eight-hour Day Committee of this Conference to include in the draft convention all purely commercial undertakings as well as industrial, such as wholesale and retail stores, banks, etc. This proposition did not carry a majority in favour of it, but it will be considered again at a later Conference. It has also been announced that Agriculture has already been included in the programme of some countries proposing to come under this legislation. Evidently what is aimed at is an attempt to drive all the workers of the world like a flock of sheep into the eight-hour pen regardless of the world's requirements. It is not suggested for a moment that a general acceptance of the eight-hour day will settle now or permanently our social and industrial problems including hours of work. Under the proposed legislation, Governments will be called upon to deal with economic questions to a much greater extent than ever before. It is quite conceivable that influences are likely to be brought to bear upon politicians from one direction or another in connection with legislation and the administration thereof which would not make for national soundness or prosperity. There is much truth in the statement that a Government governs best which governs least."

I did say that if it can be demonstrated that the eighthour day is sound economically as applied to Canada, and in the interests of all classes including the workers, I feel safe in saying that the manufacturers and I believe also the Employers generally will be glad to co-operate in bringing it into being.

And I say in closing:-It is generally recognized that unless the United States accepts similar legislation, it