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University of California at Santa Cruz, in California; Wheelock College, in Massachusetts; and Wayne State University, in Michigan are amongst the institutions of higher learning who have offered credit for this approach.

The idea of using practical experiences as a way to learn concepts necessary for attaining degrees and certification is particularly relevant to present day needs. Giving intelligent, sensitive people who have been disadvantaged by economics, race, and mis-education, a fresh view of learning can lead to more effective uses of latent talents that exist in our society.

The Public Schools are also using the workshops as a way of initiating change in the classroom. In Philadelphia, we have combined our efforts with the Learn

ing Center Project of the Philadelphia Public Schools. The center is open five days a week and is staffed with workshop Facilitators so that teachers can take advantage of the facilities and materials at opportune times. In New York, the Public Schools have used our center freely and have brought the Madison Project (A Discovery Learning Project In Mathematics) to the workshop as one of the areas of activity.

If the Creative Environment Workshop lives up to its name, what has been described here is only a beginning. We are continually excited about ideas that will change the scene and make it a fresh experience for even "old timers". Some of the things that have been created are worth marketing and one of our workshops is planning to produce items for general distribution. The flexible playgrounds that have been designed as a result of the workshops, are stretching our activities beyond four walls. If our present growth continues, those of us involved need have no fear of boredom and will continue to enjoy our roles as Facilitators. We will maintain the energy necessary to help develop workshops and coordinate their use as a positive learning experience.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Well, I just want to thank Congressman Bell and Congressman Hawkins for two exciting days in California. We have learned more here in this last 48 hours on the problems of education, and I must say that this trip again proves how important it is for people to get out of Washington.

We hear witnesses in Washington, and they sit there and give us self-serving statements of a very limited nature. It is only when you get down here into the huskings where you can talk to people like we have in the last 2 days and get two impressions: (1) the enormity of the problem; and (2) that a great deal is being done.

You get the impression sometimes when you listen to some people that nothing is being done; and then you listen to these witnesses today, and you suddenly discover that a great deal is being done, and that they need a great deal of help.

So, Congressman Hawkins, I want to thank you and your staff, and, Congressman Bell, you and your staff for their wonderful cooperation; and the witnesses also.

Thank you very much.

(Whereupon, at the hour of 5:30 p.m., the hearing in the aboveentitled matter was recessed.)

51-937-70---pt. 3- 13

NEEDS OF ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION

FOR THE SEVENTIES

MONDAY, MARCH 9, 1970

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

GENERAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Atlanta, Ga.

The General Subcommittee met at 1:30 p.m., pursuant to call, in room 228, Federal Building, 50 Seventh Street, Atlanta, Ga. Hon. Roman C. Pucinski (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Pucinski and Quie.

Staff members present: John F. Jennings, majority counsel; and Charles Radcliffe, minority counsel, for education.

Mr. PUCINSKI. The committee will come to order.

We are very pleased to be here in Georgia today-De Kalb this morning and Atlanta this afternoon-to do three things. Our subcommittee has been and is now continuing an extensive series of hearings on the educational needs of the 1970's.

It has been our purpose to try and see whether or not we can anticipate these educational needs rather than to react to those needs as we have in the past. We know the Federal Government has a lot of programs now in operation, assistance to Americans in educational operations, but we know a lot more help is going to be needed and so the purpose of our hearing in trying to ascertain the needs of the 1970's is to see if we can't look downrange and anticipate the needs and then propose the specific legislation that will help meet some of those needs. Our second purpose here is part of our continuing oversight activity as a committee that has responsibility for the various legislative programs now in operation throughout the country.

We were very pleased to visit the vocational and technical training center at De Kalb this morning and also the science center.

I was particularly impressed with the science center. I was very much impressed with the vocational and technical view and the college program because it represents what I have always felt was the main purpose of title III funds.

The third purpose of our hearing is to see what all of the conflicting court decisions and the various other activities associated with desegregation of the country's school system means to local educators, local school systems, and to the students themselves. It would be somewhat incongruous to study the educational needs of the 1970's without taking these decisions into consideration, as well.

We spoke earlier this morning with Superintendent Cherry, and we are hopeful before the day is over we will have an opportunity to talk with Dr. Letson, the superintendent of schools here in Atlanta.

I have been assured the school system here is experiencing some of the same problems we see in other parts of the country. We felt that we ought to look at the southern schools as well as the northern schools, the eastern schools, and the western schools.

Our first witness this afternoon is going to be Dr. John Middleton, the president of Morris Brown College and a member of the Atlantic City Board of Education. We are very pleased to have Dr. Middleton with us but before he presents his testimony, I wonder if I might call on my colleague, Mr. Quie, from Minnesota, who is a member of our subcommittee and one of the most influential members of our committee. He is deeply interested in the problem of education.

I am also pleased that we can have with us today our majority counsel, Mr. John Jennings, and also the minority counsel, Mr. Charles Radcliffe; and now, Mr. Quie, before we ask Dr. Middleton who has asked to be heard first because he has a plane to catch, I wonder if you would like to add anything.

Mr. QUIE. You have outlined our reasons for doing this very well, Mr. Chairman. I just want to say for a person from Minnesota who usually gets only as far south as Washington, it is good to get down here and try to see things from your point of view, as much as a person can do in 1 day.

I am reminded of a colleague and friend of mine from South Dakota, a Sioux Indian, saying, "before you criticize a man, walk for a mile in his moccasins." We want to spend a little time in your moccasins today and learn a little bit about your concern before we make any judgments. That is why I appreciate this chance of being down here.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Thank you very much, Mr. Quie.

Dr. Middleton, we are very pleased to have you here and I would suggest that you just proceed in any manner that you wish, sir, and then Mr. Quie and I will undoubtedly have a couple of questions.

STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN MIDDLETON, PRESIDENT, MORRIS BROWN COLLEGE, ATLANTA, GA.

Dr. MIDDLETON. Mr. Chairman, I thank you so much for giving me first place on the program. Since talking with Dr. Martin my plans have changed just a little bit.

If it is all right with you, or if you rather ask me questions and let me respond to them specifically, I have sufficient time in which to try to do this.

Mr. PUCINSKI. Fine. Doctor, obviously as I said, there are three areas of interest that we have. Perhaps we ought to first ask you the basic questions in your own view, what do you think will be the most pronounced educational needs of the 1970's and perhaps you would have suggestions concerning what you think we can do through legislation to improve the situation.

Dr. MIDDLETON. Well, I would make the general statement that one of the things that I think would really loom very large for us in the 1970's will be total planning by all of the levels of government and all levels of school agencies so that we can get the jump on this population explosion.

I think one of the things that has handicapped us in the past is the fact that the population has outrun school planning too fast so that

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