Paris Peace Conf. 180.03501/122

HD-122

Notes of a Meeting of the Heads of Delegations of the Five Great Powers, Held in M. Pichon's Room, Quai d'Orsay, Paris, Monday, January 5, 1920, at 10: 30 a. m.

The following were also present for items in which they were concerned:

GREAT BRITAIN

Cmdr. Lucas, R. N.

Cmdr. MacNamara, R. N.

Lt. Col. Kisch,

Mr. Malkin,

Mr. Herman,

Mr. Millington Drake

FRANCE

M. Cambon,

M. Loucheur,

M. Leygues,

Gen. Weygand,

Gen. Le Rond,

M. Laroche,

M. Seydoux,

Adl. Le Vavasseur,

M. Kammerer,

M. Fromageot,

M. Hermite,
M. Arnavon,
M. de Montille,
Capt. Roper

1. State of Negotiations With the German Delegation Concerning the Protocol and The Coming Into Force of the Treaty

ITALY

Gen. Cavallero,

Vice-Adl. Grassi,
M. Pilotti,

JAPAN

M. Nagaoka.

MR. LOUCHEUR stated that at the preceding meeting of the Council 1 he had explained the state of the negotiations with the German Delegation concerning the tonnage claimed by the Allies. The German Delegation had sent a telegram to Berlin explaining that the 180,000 tons of docks which had been over-estimated by the Allies would be deducted from the figure of 400,000 tons originally claimed. That telegram did not take into account the error on the other side committed by the Allies, who had not reckoned the 80,000 tons, whose existence had been revealed by the German inventory. The point of view adopted in that telegram could not evidently be accepted by the Allies. Had it been admitted the 400,000 tons claimed would have been reduced to only 220,000. Mr. Dutasta and himself had explained to Mr. von Lersner that they could not accept the point of view of the German Delegation. Mr. von Lersner had then proposed as a compromise a draft which implied that the reduction agreed to by the Allies could not exceed 150,000 tons. The total amount to be surrendered by the Germans would thus have been 250,000 tons. They had then said to Mr. von Lersner that that figure seemed to them too small for the Council to accept it. After a rather long discussion, Mr. von Lersner had proposed the following draft:

"From the 400,000 tons of floating docks, floating cranes, tugs and dredges claimed by the Allies, there will therefore be deducted such tonnage of floating docks as, after verification, shall be found to appear in the Interallied inventory by mistake-tonnage which therefore does not in reality exist. That reduction, however, will not exceed a total of 125,000 tons."

They had reserved their reply; but upon thinking it over they proposed that the Council accept that text, which constituted a very acceptable basis of compromise.

SIR EYRE CROWE said that if he understood aright that text would guarantee to the Allies a minimum of 275,000 tons with the possibility of obtaining more.

MR. LOUCHEUR agreed that that was so in principle; but they should not conceal the fact that it was very unlikely that they would obtain a larger figure.

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SIR EYRE CROWE inquired whether it were necessary to arrive at a definite decision on that very day, or whether he might consult his Government on the proposed figure.

MR. CLEMENCEAU said that naturally if Sir Eyre Crowe expressed the desire to consult his Government, they could not take an immediate decision; the question, however, was urgent, and it was advisable to have it finally decided.

SIR EYRE CROWE asked whether the French Government accepted the text proposed by Mr. Loucheur.

M. CLEMENCEAU replied that it did.

SIR EYRE CROWE said that in that case he also would accept it.

MR. LOUCHEUR stated that it would be wise to add in the last paragraph of the draft letter to the German Delegation, after the words— "The 192,000 tons proposed by the German Government"- the following phrase:-"And of which the list was submitted when the technical commissions discussed the subject".

It was a pure question of form but that addition would be useful to obviate all chance of misunderstanding.

It was decided:

to approve the draft letter to the Chairman of the German Delegation contained in Appendix "A", with the following addition: "and of which the list was submitted when the technical commissions discussed the subject." That sentence should be placed in the first sentence of the last paragraph of the draft letter, after the words: "The Allied and Associated Powers add that the 192,000 tons proposed by the German Government . . .".

(Mr. Wallace would refer the present resolution to Washington for the instructions of his Government.)

GENERAL LE ROND said that the Commission over which he presided had had two interviews with the German Delegates since the last meeting of the Council. Questions which it was absolutely important to solve before the coming into force of the Treaty were those concerning, on the one hand, the transmission of administrative powers, and on the other, economic affairs. On the first point agreement had practically been reached, but certain economic questions had been referred back to the Reparation Commission.

With regard to the situation of the plebiscite territories, their point of view had been given to the German Delegates in all its details four days before. The Germans had referred the question to Berlin. It was hoped that the reply of the German Government would arrive either on that or the following day.

Concerning the evacuation by German troops of the territories subject to plebiscite, the Germans had not been able to furnish any precise information. They had endeavored to draw the negotiations

to Berlin, but on account of the Allies' definite refusal they had declared that they would send for experts and the arrival of these was imminent. On questions which affected Poland, they had asked the advice of the Reparations Commission, and they hoped that the latter would communicate to them its opinion in as short a time as possible. As a matter of fact, it was only a question of finding out whether the Reparations Commission accepted the texts which they had proposed.

With regard to Memel and Dantzig, the Supreme Council had decided at its last meeting that the Commission on Polish Affairs would be charged with preparing the draft agreement with the German Government concerning the transfer of sovereignty over those territories.2

MR. CLEMENCEAU said that it was important that the Commission on Polish Affairs submit to the Council a draft at its next meeting. GENERAL LE ROND remarked that besides the questions which he had just enumerated there remained to be settled the one relating to transportation and that of the strength of the troops of occupation, which had been raised by a recent letter of Mr. von Lersner. (Appendix "B").

GENERAL WEYGAND said that there was no longer any difficulty on the question of transportation, properly speaking. Mr. von Lersner's letter, however, to which General Le Rond had just referred, might possibly reopen the whole question as it asked that the strength of the troops of occupation in the various plebiscite zones should be reduced.

MR. LOUCHEUR said that he did not believe that Mr. von Lersner's letter really re-opened the whole negotiation. The Chairman of the German Delegation was merely calling the attention of the Conference to the considerable expenses involved in occupying the Plebiscite Areas by the numbers of forces proposed. For Dantzig alone, the costs would amount to 80 million of gold marks, or nearly 800,000,000 of paper marks at the existing rate of exchange.

MR. CLEMENCEAU stated that that was certainly an important point, and suggested that it should be referred to a commission composed of the Chairmen of the Plebiscite Commissions.

SIR EYRE CROWE inquired whether M. Clemenceau thought that a commission of that kind could give the Council useful advice.

GENERAL WEYGAND replied that the question of the forces in the areas of occupation had already been examined by a mixed commission composed of diplomats and army members. Should they wish to proceed with a fresh inquiry into the question, it might be

dealt with by the said commission, which had already been in operation, and consequently possessed the requisite working knowledge.

MR. LOUCHEUR said that it was not to be wondered at that the Germans were a little taken aback by the amount of the sums demanded from them. Thus, for Danzig, whose budget was four millions of marks per year, the cost of occupation as estimated was to be 800 millions of marks.

SIR EYRE CROWE said that, with regard to Dantzig, they had only decided on the organization of a base. The cost of maintenance of those troops could only be set against the Germans in the event of their having to be employed in the maintenance of order in the territory.

MR. LOUCHEUR remarked that the Germans were depending upon a figure of 8,000 men to be sent to Dantzig.

SIR EYRE CROWE said that they should take care not to reduce their forces too much. In Upper Silesia, for example, the Germans had massed considerable forces and difficulties might be expected. It would be unwise not to have sufficient Allied forces on the spot.

GENERAL LE ROND said that the question of Upper Silesia presented itself in a very special light. But there was no reason to prevent their maintaining the forces agreed upon for Upper Silesia, while they might make reductions in the quieter regions, such as those of Allenstein and Marienwerder.

MR. LOUCHEUR said that it was evident that the Germans themselves understood the difficulties which might take place in Upper Silesia. And for that reason, they only asked in that province for a reduction of one-third on the estimated Allied forces.

MR. DE MARTINO stated that they had always been in favor of as great a reduction as possible of the Allied forces in the territories to be occupied. It was only because of the reiterated demand of the Allies that they had consented to sending the number of battalions which had been asked of them and which on account of their demobilization made it very difficult for them to furnish.

It was decided:

that the Commission which had decided the strength of the troops of occupation to be sent to the plebiscite zones in Germany, as well as to Dantzig and Memel, should be entrusted with the further inquiry into that question, as also the objections contained in Mr. von Lersner's letter dated January 2, 1920. (See Appendix "B".); this commission would be entitled to hear the Chairmen of the various Plebiscite Commissions.

MR. LOUCHEUR commented upon a note of the Organization Committee of the Reparations Commission on that question, dated December 29, 1919. (See Appendix “C”).